Ray Leonard, The Thread.

Please tell me where I demonstrate hate? I am saying what I feel. I say what I feel in response to what other people say and I bring up what I think are good facts. But I am always respectful. I think.

 

You are so full of ****. You know nothing about the lightweight to jrwelterweight division in the 70s when Duran was knocking top contenders in both classes. Beat Leonard easily 11-4. You show yr jealousy everytime you post on Duran. I hope you are in attendence at poor Wilfreds funeral to stand up and represent for him. To everyone else he is just a footnote and cautionary tale. Lightweight Duran was head and shoulders above those guys in the general concensus. And he proved on June 20 that Leonard was easy work for a great.

 

I know about that era as I do the 1980s middleweights. There is not much to say and I have said it all before. Top contenders are not greats and Duran was great for his dominance against top guys, but not top 10 ATG rating. Not for me.. They were guys he should have beaten. Lampkin, Viruet? Dejesus? Palomino at welterweight? Dejesus was the lesser of Gregorio's boys. You can say all you want about he beat Leonard easily and then ignore that Ray outclassed him in 2 fights after. That shows the unfairness and illogical Duran fan viewpoint. The fanboy attitude is not objective and there has to be truth said. If I hear something I do not think is fair I will always mention it. If they ban me here I will come back. I would think the message board wants counter opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

I did not know Wilfred Benitez well enough to go to his funeral but he might live a long long life-regardless of that, but he deserves respect and recognition for that win. And saying he is just a footnote shows the unfairness to Wilfred and I don't think that is the case. I think his win over Roberto was absolutely legit and shows some flaws in Duran as well as Wilfredo's greatness.
Duran having fans is great and people admiring a dominant fighter is good. And I think people admire Duran and he had great charisma, but the defensiveness people show when I say facts out here shows that they know what I am saying has some truth to it. There were flaws and the wins against greats were lacking. That will not change unless he comes out of retirement at 68 years old and beats Canelo or has a great win over GGG. Maybe he can lose more weight and beat Loma. Manny is 41 and he is still beating contenders. Manny is underrated if anything.

 

1. SRR - just the all-around better Sugar Ray, in every department. He wins by whatever he wants at WW or MW.
2. Toy Bulldog - sorry mate, but on principle, I refuse to do this sort of thing when there's next to no footage of someone, and in Walker's case, at welter, I believe there's ... literally none? So, yeah...pass. (and yes I realize there's barely any Robinson welter footage and yet I had no compunctions about picking him above, but...there's enough of him at or near the weight, and several complete bouts, to at least give us a reasonable sense of his form if not total clarity on what he was, unlike with Mickey where you have what, a handful of 16mm transfers publicly available online? Snippets of the Sharkey & Schmeling bouts at heavyweight, and like 2 minutes each of the McTigue and Milligan title defenses? Eh...)
3. Burley - just enough footage where I'm comfortable making a determination here. While he was unquestionably a ring genius and the king of murderer's row, and rightfully has earned a special place in the hearts of boxing historians as someone who probably should be in the championship annals, Charley does, I think as measure of perhaps overcompensation, get a tad (and I hesitate to bring down this shit-storm on myself) overrated, especially in h2h match-ups, and I think he'd lose handily to both Sugar Rays.
4. Gavilán - ultimate pick 'em. I'm going to say draw, not to cop out but simply because I think if they fought a series of ten each would take five. Or...they'd have ten actual draws.
   
5. Nápoles - very tough fight for SRL. I lean Leonard ever so slightly, most versions of him anyway, but Butter would be able to grease up the Montreal version, I think.
6. El Feo - as with his fellow Cuban, almost impossible to split, but with Cokes I & III as roadmap this strikes me as probably a late stoppage for SRL.
7. Griffith - I've typically only ever given this one much thought with the assumption it happens at middle (where I think Emile fares much better in the match-up). Welter primes... Leonard.
8. PBF - I can see paths to victory for both, tbh. Each would need to be on his game. Who entered as the A-side would perhaps have an impact (as in, what kind of gloves? What size ring? How much can Leonard re-hydrate? etc). Gun to my head, May, by the narrowest of margins (as in that's what my pick is made by, and that's what the judges' cards would show).

 

@George Crowcroft see I'm usually reliable for a thorough reply...just not if you're on a tight schedule for it (ask @Russell )

 

Wow, glad I answered before looking at the poll to keep myself honest. Floyd gets the least votes from Classic, eh .. well color me gobsmacked.

 

At welter, totally agree. Bunp it up to 154 and Emile's fortunes start to rise sharply, while Floyd's start to sink in almost direct inverse proportion.

 

I brought it up because you focused on Leonard's character,as if that has anything at all to do with his boxing talent?
I think Robinson was the greatest welterweight of all time,he was also a serial wife beater who caused his wife to have two miscarriages from the beatings he gave her.
Has that anything to do with his skills or his standing as a great fighter? Absolutely NONE!
So why the **** mention Leonard's character flaws?
I don't lie ,it is one of my few virtues.
You're still burning because you got a ban.I had nothing to do with it.Why don't you pm a moderator and ask if I made a complaint against you? Obviously they won't tell you who did,but they might very well tell you who didnt!
I'm only telling you this because you might fixate on someone else who is also innocent of reporting you ,but someone who, unlike me would be hurt by your accusation. Me, I couldnt give a flying ****!

 

Not many in his relatively small window of excellence compared to his entire and relatively inactive career as a whole .. Besides the better boxers SRR and Duran who would/did beat him .. He is at least 50-50 and probably more against any WW in history

 

Green was a decent fighter, and Leonard sandwiched him between Benitez and Duran. He was rated in the ring top 10 when SRL fought him.

As TheFunnyMan7 said the KO was a brilliant sequence, brutal, beautiful etc. It always get brought up when people thrash out lists of memorable knockouts. He was sparked.

 

Ray did beat the best in the 1980s but he sure was inactive. I remember when he won the fighter of the decade award? And that Lalonde fight.. 2 titles in one fight? Why not three or four? Anything goes if you can bend the rules. then what kind of accomplishment is that.

 

Agreed amigo .. He was so special while only a few others were just as good for a lot longer … He was incredibly intelligent and knew very early on that he had the popularity, the fan base, and the sport of boxing in his back pocket so the money machine could keep rollin' .. He was "good" for boxing no matter what as you previously mentioned .. Mayweather did the same thing and took Ray's blueprint to a whole new level … It was "good" for the sport that guys like Ali, SRL, Mayweather, Canelo kept/keep winning despite the circumstances

 

You are such an idiot! I got banned on purpose dingbat. I wanted to prove a point.

 

Tremendous post and I agree with all of it except the Mayweather prediction.

Ta da!