Why Didnt Lastarza Fight The Following?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Jan 29, 2020.



  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,404
    20,222
    Jun 26, 2009
    OK, so you accidentally left Rex Layne off? Because he had just beaten Charles.

    Explain any reason you didn’t include Layne other than the fact that LaStarza fought and beat him. You left him off because it didn’t fit your narrative.
     
    Bummy Davis likes this.
  2. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,142
    3,596
    Feb 18, 2019
    Marciano beat Lowry decisively in a rematch. Also LaStarza had beaten Lowry.

    LaStarza had 56 fights up to the Marciano title challenge. He had won 53, and had reversed his other two losses. So he had beaten everyone he had fought except Marciano and had come closer to getting a decision over him than anyone.

    Layne, Bucceroni, and Brion were rated fighters, Layne and Bucceroni near the top of the division at their best.

    What it boils down to is that there have been a lot of contenders who have gotten title shots without matching these credentials.
     
    choklab and Bummy Davis like this.
  3. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

    1,227
    1,643
    Nov 15, 2011
    I don't believe Charles-Satterfield was an eliminator in any formal sense. At the time, there was talk that Charles would face Valdes next to try and wipe out that loss and clear the way for a shot at Marciano. In the event, Charles was offered his title shot immediately after the Satterfield fight so that idea was abandoned.
     
  4. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,142
    3,596
    Feb 18, 2019
    Okay. You might be right. What is certain is that Charles sought a rematch and Valdes' manager avoided it. I know that Charles was moved back to the #1 contender spot after Valdes' poor performance against McBride and Charles' impressive KO of Satterfield.
     
    Bummy Davis likes this.
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    He got the decision against Charles. Who thought he actually deserved it?
    Do you think the Layne that Lastarza got a split dec over was anywhere near a prime Layne?
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    Lowry was a journeyman, how does beating him prove anything?
    Lastarza had beaten who exactly to merit a title shot?
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    I don't believe Bucerroni was ranked and I invite you to prove me wrong. 22 of his previous 41fights were against Lhv's.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    70,032
    24,036
    Feb 15, 2006
    I suspect that he was briefly.

    I doubt that Al Weil would have considered him as a challenger for Marciano otherwise.
     
    choklab likes this.
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    Do you really?
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    70,032
    24,036
    Feb 15, 2006
    Given that all of Maricano's title challengers were ranked in the top two, I think it is fair to say that they didn't give a title shot to any bum.
     
    Jason Thomas, choklab and Mendoza like this.
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    LaStarza certainly did enough for the re-match. There could be an agenda here, so I must ask this question. Did any of the OP's fighters risk a match with Marciano in a non title fight? Nope, but LaStarza did.

    Valdes
    Moore
    Baker
    Walls
    Neuhaus
    Gardner
    Williams
    Baksi
    Charles
    Walcott
    Sys
    Oma
    Jackson
    Harrison
    Satterfield
    Holman
    Slade
    Wallace
    Henry

    Had LaSarza beaten Maricano he's getting a big money fight next vs/ a top draw fighter. It just didn't work out that way for him, but I'l say this he showed his quality vs. Marciano. Even Peter Marciano, Rocky;s brother who used to post on the web ( is he still living? ) says LaStarza put up a tough fight the first time vs Rocky.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    After beating Charles, why would it be encumbent for Valdes to rematch him to prove he was a worthy challenger?
    Which of Marciano's other challengers had to do this?
     
  13. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,946
    2,833
    Jun 1, 2018
    Without spending the time to get into specifics of each fighter you have listed as to why they didn't fight the pre-title Rocky, some of those fighters hadn't really developed into top-contender status at the time. Similarly, some of them were over the hill as contenders at that time.

    But more to the point, Al Weill was calling all the shots not only for Rocky as his de-facto manager but for all the contenders as matchmaker for Madison Square Garden and more importantly the IBC. So the fighters Marciano faced had to pass the Weill test. Even if the fighters you listed wanted to fight Marciano, it wasn't their call. They were all being vetted by Weill and the decision to fight Rocky wasn't theirs, it was Weill's. LaStarza passed the Weill test as being a suitable, i. e., beatable, opponent for Rocky before he won the title.. The non-opponents you listed didn't. I might add that it is hardly correct to list Charles and Walcott as appropriate non-title opponents for Marciano since they were champions for most of that time. Also, Moore was still concentrating on getting a light-heavy shot.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  14. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    10,974
    5,330
    Feb 10, 2013
    Layne did deserve the decision against Charles. It was close and Dempseys job as ref was a masterclass of fence sitting but ultimately the right guy won. I have the complete film of the fight from Marv Jensen, Laynes manager. Layne was just younger, stronger, more physical and more active. Ray Arcel bitched and moaned about the decision but like I said it was close but Layne nicked it by at least two rounds.
     
  15. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    10,974
    5,330
    Feb 10, 2013
    Bucceroni was rated #2 in the HW division immediately after LaStarza lost to Marciano. Prior to that he was rated 3 or 4.