I don't think that the B-Hop that RJJ beat was green. From Nard's 5th pro fight you can see that he's got a good, solid skillset. Yes, of course, Hop got better but the green allegations, I just don't agree.
He was only two years at SMW and beat the best fighter in the division, so a bit much is made of the fact that he didn’t clean it out.
No, I'm not saying he should have cleaned it out. I'm just saying that he was complaining about the lack of challenges out there when there were fights in that division that were tougher than Eric Lucas. But he seemed reasonable content to have those kind of fights and then say there was no challenge for him.
An ATG specimen indeed perhaps the most naturally gifted boxer in history in terms of athleticism and reflexes with some very good wins but the nature of his career flatters to deceive. This has been done to death but his best wins are a weight drained James Toney who had gotten so many questionable decisions and struggled against average fighters at MW prior to Roy that that win is not as impressive in hindsight. A Bernard Hopkins who had achieved NOTHING when Roy beat him (in fact Hopkins had yet to beat a top 10 MW by that point) and only won a world title at MW 2 years later after all the top guys had moved up or gotten old. And of course the creme de la creme - Outpointing arguably the worst HW title holder in the division's history at that point and even the ref had been given special instructions to disallow any clinching or work on the inside. Everything in between those 3 wins are journeymen, contenders and has beens, some impressive but not what makes a career ATG. Was Roy capable of taking the real challenges, winning and going down as a legit top 10 ATG ?? I believe he was but he never took the risks, not all his fault but for me he was the first 'star' fighter who went out of his way to take the easy match ups, make excuses, pick up easy paydays and have fun playing basketball before fights and doing commentary on HBO. Benn, Eubank, Collins, Dariusz, Calzaghe, Hopkins at 175, Jirov, staying at HW and fighting some live bodies there etc. etc. all in his grasp and achievable but he wasted the best years largely, ruined himself by dropping back to LHW and never recovered.
Liles apparently priced himself out and Eubank made quite clear he had little interest in Jones. Why Benn and him never met I don't know. But the window was pretty small as well.
I agree that the window was small but I guess Collins was WBO titlist before he met Benn. If Jones was looking for a challenge, no doubt Collins would have obliged. I think Roy probably just thought he was on another level to everyone else and didn't see a challenge out there for him. I think he was right about the first part but Eric Lucas and the like were not the best available opposition. The Pazienza mismatch didn't help either with that perception that he could have pushed himself a bit harder during his prime.
He beat the two greatest fighters in his generation that were within spitting distance of his division. And he had the same number of fights under his belt as B-Hop. Then you add Hill, Griffin, McCallum, Tarver and the underrated Johnson and you have an elite resume.
If you have him no. 1-5 on your ATG fighters list, you may be overrating him a little. If you have him as an ATG, one of the best athletes ever in boxing, and have him 1-5 on your ATG h2h list at their peak.... you're not overrating him.
I never thought those ugly, end of career losses would tarnish Roy's legacy. But I was wrong. Those who saw Roy's prime know how special he was. But those who didn't don't appreciate him. I'd say that he's very much underrated by many of the newer generation of fans. You'd be surprised how many only know of him from the Calzaghe fight. If he was prime today, this thread would be RJJ24.com.