after Whitaker, who is the greatest of past 20 years

Cocknose. When JMM finally catches him he'll get beat again.

 

You're right mate, but it didn't stop Whitaker from fighting in Ramirez's adopted backyard, or in front of 60,000 Chavez worshippers. Even if RJ went over there and got jobbed, he would have lost no credibility for it amongst those in the know, just like he lost no credibility not having won the gold medal.

 

From what I hear, Germany is far worse than going to anywhere on the other side of the pond, Italy is pretty close as well.

It is not just the judging, but the referees, commission officials, and promoters ringing the bell!

 

Julio Cesar Chavez get's my vote.
(Before Whitaker)

 

I have Pernell above Jones and all the others due to his resume. Julio Cesar Chavez, Azumah Nelson, Buddy McGirt, Roger Mayweather, Rafael Pineda, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Jose Luis Ramirez, Freddie Pendleton, Juan Nazario, Greg Haugen, Diosoblys Hurtado, Jorge Paez, Wilfredo Rivera, Harold Brazier, Louie Lomeli, Anthony Jones, Poli Diaz. Plus, past his best, Pernell did better, in my opinion, against a prime, unbeaten De La Hoya than Floyd did to a part-time fighter who had lost 3 of his last 5, all between a near 3 year period of inactivity. Pernell threw more, landed more, landed at a higher connect percentage, and scored the only official knockdown. The last thing, "Sweet Pea" proved his greatness. Every fighter who is dominant in their prime, such as Whitaker, Mayweather, Jones, Ali, Holmes, Tyson, Robinson, Leonard, etc. need to show that when they are not dominating, when they are hurt or losing, they can overcome that and win. Robinson stopping Turpin in the rematch, Holmes getting up from the Shavers knockdown and stopping him, Leonard chasing down Hearns and stopping him when he was losing the fight. That is greatness. RJJ never showed he could, neither did Tyson, and neither has Floyd. Whitaker, clearly past his best, was losing and had been down when he assaulted Hurtado, stopping him in the 11th and producing one of the most brutal knockouts of recent memory. He didn't knock out any other welterweight, but when he had to, he did. that is important. Pernell is better overall than Floyd. Better boxer, better workrate, better bodypunching technique, more versatile. RJJ had more power P4P, but not on the same level of skill, lacked the opposition to be compared to Pernell, and folded when he got hurt for the first time. I respect the choices, but still am not convinced that any are greater than "Sweet Pea."
I consider RJJ & Chavez right behind Whitaker. Chavez gets part of his career cut off because of the 20 year span, so even though he is greater than RJJ, it becomes closer.

 

Good point Cobra - but if a guy is never put in that kind of situation, should that really count against him?

 

1. Whitaker
2. Jones
3. Mayweather

 

Your premise is flawed IMO

 

1. Whitaker
2. Jones
3. Mayweather

 

i think jones was the best as well.

whitaker was great.

but lacked that killer punch.

jones could really hit, especially at middle and super middle.

 

Yes, you can hold it against a guy if they never were put in that situaiton. for one, it's possible Miguel Cotto could have put Floyd there, but he is not fighting him. But, more importantly, there is a fighter from some era of boxing who could put anyone in that kind of situation. RJJ buckling when hurt means getting hit by Foster or Moore or Charles or Spinks, could do the same. They all were much better boxers than Tarver or Johnson and much better punchers. Floyd's resume is great, but too many guys he could have fought but didn't. Cotto, Margarito, Mosley, Tszyu, Casamayor. Pernell made world champions, P4P elites, and truly great fighters look like nothing more than top level ameteurs, and when he had to overcome something in the ring, he did. Also, RJJ never fought Benn, Eubank, Michelweski, and, to a lesser extent, fought Ruiz instead of Lewis. Pernell fought everyone around him, and beat them all. Someone said they had not seen much of Whitaker. Watch a highlight of him on Youtube. It helps if you know the guys he's fighting, but you can see just how talented he was anyway.

 

roy jones for all his ability had all the attributes but he never had his defining fights.

whitikar
floyd
b-hop
roy jones

 

Agreed.

 

First of all, I have Chavez at #2 (part of the reason Pernell is #1). the wins over Taylor, Camacho, Rosario, Ramirez, are in this time span (i believe), so he's just above RJJ. I also don't think Holyfield is getting enough respect. Tyson, Bowe, Holmes, Foreman, Mercer, Qawi, Moorer, Douglas, De Leon, etc. I'm not saying he's 2nd, but in terms of ATG, i have him above PBF. Same with B-Hop.

 

other than pea, roy and pbf, there was a period of a couple years where shane mosley was in the p4p mix when he was crushing everybody at 135 and up through his win over de la hoya at 147... i think its easy to forget how dominant he was because of his subsequent 2xlosses to forrest and wright when he was fighting much bigger guys