Manny Pacquiao has never been as good at any weight class as Bernard Hopkins at middleweight?

This is a pointless argument really. Oscar wasn’t at his best against either fighter. Hopkins clearly beat a better version but Oscar was dwarfed by Hopkins the size advantage means the significance of the win is massively diminished. Oscar clearly was way past his prime when Pacquiao fought him. He hadn’t been at his best for a long time so regardless if he was drained or not it’s not considered as one of Pacquiao’s stand out wins anyway. Now if this goes back to who is better h2h between Pacquiao and Hopkins, you don’t need the Oscar fights to determine the answer to that. It really should be obvious to any objective boxing fan with a brain as to who the better fighter is

 

well I guess you'd have to be a committed fan to argue this out...
I am not a big fan of either per say, however I'd say Pacman had more to offer in terms of a wider range of skill

Hopkins was a career spoiler, which years ago would have been strongly criticised as a negative performer, but now this gets applauded as something extra cause he got loads of '0's...

not interested enough in them to say for sure,
however I prefer a willing fighter, be they first class boxer or box/fighter, favouring the stylist, but again of these two I'd say Manny.

 

Ah, these wonderful keyboard warriors who see everything so clearly in hindsight that they couldn't predict before it happened.

For me the important thing is how Oscar looked in the ring. And he didn't look weak and out of sorts like Toney vs Tiberi, Holy vs Bowe III or Jones vs Tarver I - he just couldn't handle Manny's speed. But neither could Hatton or Cotto etc.

And I don't know if you're just playing dumb, but if you can't see the significance of a former FW champion beating someone more decisively than an undisputed MW champion does, even if that someone has faded, then I can't help you. You think one of today's FW champions will beat even faded versions of Crawford or Spence in 5-10 years time? And if it happens it won't be anything special since they're not in their primes anymore? Nonsense.

I sure as hell would see it as a big something. I don't know if something like that will happen again in my lifetime and I don't think it has happened before, so for me it rings false to dismiss it as nothing special.

And with that I don't have anything more to say on the subject. Have really only repeated myself as it is.

 

He was a career spoiler in the sense that he spoiled several careers, but he wasn't a career spoiler in the sense that he was always negative, by any stretch.

 

Ironic that you would say I have no sense of proportion when Pacquiao was infamous for weight draining at the lower divisions and came into the Barrera fight heavier than the so-called naturally bigger man. You also claim Roy and B-Hop were the same size. You do know Roy was almost 20 pounds heavier than Bernard when they met in the ring the first time, right?

 

I think it was 13 in their first fight but might have been 16.

In their second, which was the one we discussed, the difference was pretty neglible I think.

 

Pretty sure it was 20- 183 to 163. Roy spoke about it openly in one of Hopkins’ bouts. The difference between Manny and Oscar when they stepped into the ring was what was actually negligible, which tells you how drained Oscar must have been.

 

I remember a bit differently.

But it's a moot point, you brought up Hopkins win in the rematch when they were much closer weight wise, but now you're trying the switch to the first fight which Hopkins clearly lost. Just admit you were off base.

An for the last time, Pac was a former FW lineal champion. To be effective both at FW at WW is what makes him so unique. If you disagree, please (as I've aked so many times) give the other former FW champions that managed to totally dominate even a faded former WW champ.

But that will be all for me for now on the subject.

 

You're confused. I never compared their first meeting with any of Pacquiao's fights. It's only relevant in relation to the rematch because Bernard was a smaller fighter compared to Roy. Hopkins did his best work as a middleweight. He later fought Roy, a light heavyweight who had previously fought as a 200-pounder, when the latter was at the end of the line. That was the analogy I was making. So yes, Hopkins and Jones were the same size, weight-wise, when they met the second time, but then so were Pacquiao and De La Hoya.