To the much greater extent, Cooney is an unknown quantity, which leaves the door open to criticism; especially since he was ultimately defeated by Holmes and never really recovered from that loss. Whilst we can't say for sure what might have been, had that fight not have been pursued so eagerly and as such expedited, we do know that Cooney had power; that he was durable enough to go 12 rounds and was able to take 4 or 5 rounds off of Holmes, in the process - which is about the same number Berbick managed to lift, over 15, and more than what either Shavers, Weaver or Smith could gather. Indeed, in terms of rounds won, I suspect he even did better over 12 than Ray Mercer did against a 42 year-old Holmes. It's not a lot to go on, I know, but I'd say it's enough to give him a good chance against most, if not all, of Holmes' Championship opposition.
I think this is fair. In no way am I saying Cooney beats an actual champion, since in reality he lost to the best, but I cannot consider any of the rival belt holders during that time as “actual champions” seeing asThey did not beat the best either. I really don’t think guys like Tate, Dokes, Coetzee, Page, Berbick, Tubbs, Thomas, Weaver, Tucker or Witherspoon achieved anymore than Cooney did anyway. Did they really beat better opponents than Cooney did? Are they really so far apart? They might have happened to beat guys who held a belt when they beat them...but it is significant that at no time did these fellows ever beat the best heavyweight in doing so. Cooney was never the Worlds best. Neither was Dokes, Tate, Tubbs And the rest of them. Beating the second best or third, forth or sixth best heavyweight in the world doesn't make somebody a champion even if they get a green, red or black belt in doing so.
It's funny because I was just about to add an extra consideration, having thought on about some of the fighters, who were around at the time, a bit longer; how a fight between them and Cooney might go. And, Greg Page (who, somewhat ironically, suffered his first professional defeat against Berbick on the Holmes/Cooney card) stands out to me as the guy I think, who could have and would have beaten Cooney in a tough fight, in 1982 - as long as Page didn't break his thumb in an early round.
I also see it the same way. He could beat the whole 80's HW fighters except Larry and prime Tyson. Maybe he will lose a few fights because of his bad chin. But lets say he would win 7-8 out of 10 fights against the top contenders of this era. (81-86)
while Holmes was fighting guys with 10-12-13-14-15 fights- guys like Weaver- Tate-Page-Coetzee- Dokes- Thomas-were killing each other - Cooney would fit in with this group and have mixed results- Larry did a good job staying away from Cooneys left hook but that was Gerry's only arm, the right hand he could barely scratch his arse with. The right hand punchers were the guys in that era that Holmes did not fight- he met a few 18-9 Weaver (close calls) Shavers (close calls) and no one ever called Renaldo Snipes a right hand puncher (after getting dropped 2X by Coetzee) but he landed the right vs Holmes - unfortunately for Larry when he could no longer pick his spots he met a young right hand bomber named Iron Mike and he got right handed his arse - Larry was the most fit and complete fighter out of the group and had a great jab but I always felt because of styles he would have picked up a few losses against the group that was killing each other. Never Know.
He never beat Bowe. Tony was lucky he could hustle the kid into not fighting too hard. He knew bowe was a lazy ass who was happy for him to lower the pace. It became a friendly spar. It was simple back foot sparring. Tubbs wasn’t fighting to win and was lucky Bowe went along with it. Like I say. Joe Bugner could match that result as old as he was at that time. Tubbs stank as a top fighter. He never beat the best in the world. The one time he knew he was fighting the best in the world was when he met Tyson. The guy had his trainer walk out on him because he was in no condition to fight! Then to help his credibility the promoters offered Tubbs a cash incentive to make a decent weight for that fight. And Tubbs came in deliberately heavier so that he had an alibi for losing. The guy was a joke. Tubbs bore no comparison to the elite of that time. He was clever enough to hustle with them. He never stood out.
How would one know? Cooney was heavily protected and never beat a genuine top 10 heavyweight. He had big power however and worked the body well. I'm not sold on his durability. Perhaps a mixed bag would be the safe bet. He certainly wouldn't have beaten them all.
Absolute and utter rot. Cooney never beat anyone as good as any of that lot. They were racking up losses because they were, at least, fighting each other i,e, genuine top 10 and better heavyweights. Cooney didn't beat any. You bemoan Cleveland Williams non stop as unproven against top 10 heavyweights yet here you are with this.
Foreman absolutely decimated Norton and Frazier whilst Ali at that time struggled with them. Shows how far ahead Foreman was potentially to Ali
I think mixed results in a more sensibly handled career is a fair speculation. However, by 1982, I think it would be fair to suggest that Cooney was a little bit ahead of most that were coming up at around the same time, in terms of experience. Spoon, Smith and Tubbs, for example were slightly behind on the career timeline. I think it would have made for some interesting contests, had Cooney's management been inclined to take their time with him. As previously alluded, I think Page would have presented the biggest challenge for Cooney, at that time. And, who knows, maybe if he'd taken a soft 'L' for the betterment of his career, we'd have seen Cooney at least attempt a committed recovery from the Loss.
I think Pages size, speed, jab and right hand would have led to him stopping Cooney. Maybe a Berbick would have been a good match for Cooney.
No I think it is a slightly different case to Williams. Cooney losing to Holmes did a whole lot better than Williams did losing to Liston. And I don’t think Weaver beating Tate was much better than Cooney beating Jimmy Young or dare I say it, even old Ken Norton who still beat 17-0 Tex Cobb in his previous fight. Tates Resume was not great, and the list of lesser champions all stem from his bizarre selection for a vacant belt. And it’s not just Tate. Tubbs, Page And Dokes. They were just prospects with barely an important win behind them when they win their belts. people picking Big Cat Williams over Ingo Johansson and Floyd Patterson is completely different. Those ABC belt guys were far less proven than real champions from the 1960s. Cooney is closer to being equal to those belt holders than Williams was to real champions.
Yes - I think Page wins, but I reckon it's close enough (or a good enough performance) for Cooney to be encouraged to continue and improve. I think Cooney could have beaten Berbick and, if it was going to be a battle of the body punches then Cooney stops Berbick, in my opinion.
