1908 Jack Johnson vs 1988 Mike Tyson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Mar 5, 2020.



Who wins and how

  1. Tyson KO

    77.1%
  2. Tyson TKO

    7.1%
  3. Tyson UD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Tyson SD

    2.9%
  5. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Johnson KO

    5.7%
  7. Johnson TKO

    1.4%
  8. Johnson UD

    5.7%
  9. Johnson SD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. No one beats Jack Johnson!!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Lmao @ willard pulling a Homer Simpson.
     
  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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  3. Grips

    Grips New Member Full Member

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    What Willard didn't have in skill he def had in toughness. Poor guy nearly died vs Dempsey :(
     
  4. Grips

    Grips New Member Full Member

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    Not much to say about the Hart fight, but I do have something to say for the other three

    1. The Choynski fight happened while Johnson was a complete novice who got into boxing because he already had a natural knack for fighting. It wasn't like now where there are gyms that can teach you basic technique of boxing. Before this fight, Johnson barely knew how to establish his jab before Choynski reportedly gave him good advice on how to use it

    2. Everyone tends to give Johnson crap about getting knocked down by a middleweight, but not only was Johnson dominating the fight and quickly finished it after the punch, but Ketchel was a great puncher. Not only that, but his main strategy was trying to lull Johnson into a safe mindset and leap in with a shot using full power when he wasn't expecting. He tried this several times before finally getting that 1 in 1000 punch that came clean on the chin. I don't believe this moment that was last ditch attempt for Ketchel really hurts Johnson's credibility all that much.

    As far as the Gunboat exhibition, I personally have never heard of it, so I don't really have a solid opinion on it. But what I have found on it, it doesn't seem like it was an actual knockout or TKO. All I can find is that Johnson got dropped and came back up. It might take more research but that story is pretty shady to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
    Samtotheg and 70sFan865 like this.
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    For the avoidance of any doubt, I am not saying that Tyson was mentally weak.

    I am saying that these two were both great intimidators, and I am picking a winner in that specific chess match!
    Johnson was excellent at mind games, but he did it very differently to Tyson.

    You have doubtless heard of his golden smile.

    It was a smile tinged with sarcasm and insincerity.

    He looked at his opponents, as if he saw them as a bit of an embarrassment, and he didn't want to hurt them too much.

    He could convey all that with one look, and if you had seen him toying with his opponents previously, the idea fell on fertile ground!
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    He was essentially what writers would call a "stone wall"

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StoneWall

    Johnson being a defensive guy who relied on stamina and liked to use clinches and counters to wear a guy out over time met his match against a behemoth who ate punches like an obese Midwestern wife eats chips ahoy cookies. It was the worst strategy to use in hindsight.

    I think what happened with Dempsey is that willard was not only old and inactive, he was getting tagged at blinding speed from multiple angles. It must have felt like getting jumped in prison. Even a guy with an average chin can take a good punch if he sees it coming, but willard's weight and slower reflexes against dempsey's tornado of blows that had a unique blend of speed and power coming from his blind spots overwhelmed his defenses before he knew what happened. The fact he kept getting up despite the lack of a standing 8 count or neutral corner, having gruesome injuries, and being outdoors in weather hot enough to make a rattlesnake curse is almost as impressive as Dempsey's victory!

    I wonder how many people could repeat it against a well prepared and focused Willard with modern rules in a nice air conditioned Arena?
     
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    If they are allowed to stand over their fallen foe and whack him as he attempted to rise... well, then... plenty.
     
  8. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    You missed where I said with modern rules.
     
  9. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I'm surprised. I thought you were a Johnson man.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Johnson had 24+ record fight before Choynski, and who knows how many battle royals. It was Choynski who rode the rails to the fight, which took place in Johnson's home town.

    Kethcel could hit for a middleweight, but he did not have heavyweight power and that fight shows Johnson is suspect vs punchers. Moorer hits harder than Ketchel.

    Smith did TKO Johnson, he was dazed down and out and his manager had to step it. While it was only a 4 round exhibition match, Smith was a novice, and really not a KO puncher.
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta likes this.
  11. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson wasn't "down and out". According to Smith's own account he was down for about 4 seconds. This was in a sparring session just days before Johnson's title defence against Stanley Ketchel, so naturally the round was cut short.
     
  12. BoxingFanOfIranianDescent

    BoxingFanOfIranianDescent Tony Galento was an African American boxer. banned Full Member

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    Clinching every 5 seconds isn't exactly genuis, anyone in good shape who is usually fighting middleweights or crumbling relics would use their strength to their advantage. Intercepting the occasional haymakers was better, but this isn't the prizefighting era where single telegraphed punches are the norm. Tyson KO 2-3
     
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  13. Samtotheg

    Samtotheg Active Member Full Member

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    May 4, 2021

    clinching every 5 seconds is how you keep safe after you throw your punches, you cant return fire if you are tied up, Tyson and boxers from his era to now rely on the dumbass high guard where they throw shots then high guard giving you a turn to throw at them. Johnson gives Tyson no turns and wrecks him in the clinch , Jack by Ko or win every round decision!
     
  14. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tyson by brutal KO in round 1.
     
  15. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You're nuts, seek help