Writer debunks "The Four Who Baffled Liston Article"

I think you posted wrong, I said.

That takes the cake! Thanks for the humor. Next time try putting a space between suppose

This content is protected

It's

 

The problem here is a couple of keyboard warriors put way too much faith in whats easy to read online without getting off your ass and none in what actual experts at the time when it was topical said. As I said before and which Im sure the knuckleheads here are unaware of Liston was criticized fairly heavily for both Whitehurst fights. He was calked plodding, one dimensional, overhyped, and even his power was questioned. The radio announcer, at a time when radio announcers made it a point to sit on the fence, could hardly contain being unimpressed by Liston.

And yes, Marshall did beat a past his prime Bob Satterfield (a light heavyweight who sometimes fought heavyweights) but that came AFTER Marshall defeated Liston. When Marshall fought Liston he had never convincingly defeated a heavyweight and was unranked. I will say again that Marshall defeating a guy who was on the downside that had failed to win more than a third of his fights (getting knocked out in half of his losses) does nothing to diminish the idea that Liston was baffled by Marshall. What it does is reinforce the idea that you trying to prop up Listons reputation by puffing up Marshalls credentials. Marshalls credentials werent the issue. The issue was the difficulty Liston had when facing him. A broken jaw and a loss put an exclamation point on that difficulty. As does Listons own admission of his difficulty in handling Machen and the general publics opinion at the time that Liston wasnt ready for the big time yet after his two fights with whitehurst.

 

You can't make a post without adding personal slurs to it can you..
You said Marshall never convincingly beat a heavyweight which we both know is untrue.Now you are attempting to qualify your earlier remark by changing the gaol posts.
Fighters occasionaly get broken jaws Finnegan v Tonna,
Abraham v Miranda ,both Finnegan and Abraham won btw.
I'm trying to prop up nobodies credentials,I'm just pointing out you are wrong, it's not a crime to be wrong,but maybe your ego just cannot accept it?
Bottom line a 7 fight novice fighting with a broken jaw ,lost a split decision against a cagey defensive fighter, you make of it what you will I really couldn't give a rats ass.
Satterfield was according to you" past prime" in 54 for Marshall when he ko'd him ,yet in56 he was ranked number 8 and in 57 number 6 and after beating Marshall in the rematch he defeated Valdes,Summerlin, and Mederos.
You blatant bias against Liston is making you look rather silly here,which is a shame because you have a lot of knowledge of boxing,but you aren't yet the ORACLE.

 

No ,you really didn't ,you went back and edited your original post after I pointed out you had ****ed up.
Here is what you posted .
"Thank takes the cake! Thanks for the humor"
Dishonest as well as illiterate!

 

Although this wasn't directed at me, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

You lied about leaving the board. Very much in line with your character. However, now that you're back, I am finding you inadvertently funny.

If you were honest, which we all know you are not, you'd admit to starting many flame wars with personal slurs, not just with me but many other posters with your insults. Your alts in Ranier and Tonto62 did the same. I suggestion take another vacation. I hear China is nice this time of year.

 

Thanks - I don't post a lot. I enjoy reading other people's arguments but mostly only pitch in when someone posts something I believe to be false or (let's face it, a rarity) asks a question which I can actually answer.

And yes, I did read the article. I think it sums it up well with "Bothered, Not Baffled." There were fights where Liston didn't have things all his own way in every minute of every round, but you could say that about literally any fighter who's ever lived. Ultimately he wasn't so "baffled" that he wasn't able to beat all these men.

 

No I didn't lie about leaving the board, I said I was taking a hiatus to go travelling.I had a week in the South of France,a few days back in the UK then the Corona Virus escalated and I had to cancel my 3 weeks in the Dominican republic and accept a voucher for the value of my ticket. So I am in enforced lockdown.
I really don't care what you think about anything ,you seem obsessed with me,which is rather weird,as I'm a 71 years old male who isn't very prepossessing physically.[See my avatar with my grandson, having his first bout, a charity fight for Women's Cancer.]
Before I left you managed to comment on just about every post and thread I made,in none of which did you address the subject of the thread.You habitually derail threads to promote your hatred of certain fighters and to try and belatedly score some pathetic points from me.
It's all rather sad .My advice to you is get yourself a life and stop making a laughing stock of yourself here.
Leave me alone and I'll happily stop humiliating you,because honestly fella,you're just not that rewarding an adversary, or indeed even remotely interesting in your puerile opinions.

 

Sensible take on things.

 

Exactly... And Burt Whitehurst being pitifully unskilled!!

 

Go re-read my post. I said Marshall "HAD NEVER" convincingly defeated a HW. He hadnt when he fought Liston. Period. There was nothing implied about what I said and no changing of the goal posts. If your reading comprehension isnt up to par dont shoot the messenger.

What was a I wrong about when you were trying to insinuate that Marshall was anything but a journeyman? Was I wrong that when he faced Liston he was unranked? No, you can easily look up the NBA rankings and see he was unranked as either a HW or LHW which would have **** all to do with his credibility as a HW. Was I wrong that he was a LHW? No. Was I wrong that he had never convincingly defeated a HW? No. Had he ever defeated a contender at any weight? No. You extrapolate from that that Liston, in his prime, must have been **** to lose to someone like that. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. That is your own insecurity around the man. My point was merely that he lost to that guy and was baffled by him. Spinning it elsewise is nothing more than hero worship nuthugging.

Satterfield couldnt be past his prime when he lost to Marshall? Ten years into his career and nearly 31 with a string of losses and knockouts behind him? Again, you may want to get to know the fighters you puff up befor you put so much weight into them. Julio Mederos had exactly three signature wins in his entire career: LaStarza who was shot, Johnson who was poisoned, and Satterfield who he managed to defeat once out of their three bouts. When he faced Satterfield in 1954 he had fought nobody and was unranked. When he lost to Satterfield in 1957 he had won just 2 of his last 11 fights and was suffering a detached retina and yet he managed to beat your supposedly prime Satterfield four months later despite never winning another fight in his career. Satterfield would be the only name fighter he would legitimately defeat in a span of over 20 fights. After defeating Mederos Satterfield had one more win against a fighter of any repute and that was Howard King who was known more for being Archie Moores sparring partner than for his standing as a pro. When Satterfield beat Valdez Valdez was coming off a loss to Moore and would win only two of his next 6 fights. Hardly the terminator. Johnny Summerlin likewise would lost his next two fights after losing to Satterfield and one of those losses came to Harold Carter who was nothing more than a middling HW at his best. Indeed Summerlin had lost not once but twice to the same Sonny Liston that you say was nothing when he fought Marshall BEFORE Marshall fought Liston. So if Summerlin was losing to a 5 fight novice like Liston in his prime what does that say about him? So yeah. Im sorry but this bravado around Satterfield is sorely misplaced. And your agenda here is duly noted.

 

1.I never suggested that Marshall was anything but a journeyman,nor questioned anyone calling him such.
2.I never said Marshall was either a lhvy or a heavy.
3.I have no insecurities about boxers or indeed about anything else.
4.You said Satterfield was past prime yet he achieved his highest ranking ever in the next 2 years.
5.You said Satterfield was nearly 31 ,in fact he was only 21 days past his 30th birthday!
6.Satterfield defeated the number 1 contender Nino Valdes.AFTER losing to Marshall!
7.Summerlin was ranked number 8 when Satterfield beat him,what he subsequently did or didn't do is irrelevant as regards that fight.
8.I did not say, Liston was nothing ,at any time of his career.
9.Summerlin lost to Liston twice in1954 , Liston was having his 5th and 6th fights within a year Summerlin would beat Young Jack Johnson,Charley Powell and Zora Folley to earn himself the number 8 ranking.
10. Julio Mederos,I'm familiar with him and have the Ring magazine report of his fight with Johnson."The Case Of the Poisoned Apple" which was investigated by commissioner Julius Helfand.

Your problem Klompy, is you think you are the only one who has studied and read up on boxing,that and your antagonistic attitude.
News Flash. Everyone who disagrees with you is not a fan boy or a nut hugger, nor do they have to have an agenda.
I'm well aware of the weaknesses in Satterfield's game and do not require you to tell me them.Have a good day.

 

Tony, Tony Tony, why lie? You said I'll be leaving this board soon as the inmates are running the asylum. I called out your BS in that thread.

This content is protected

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/tyson-fury-vs-vitali-klitschko.644683/page-12

This content is protected

I saw nothing about a indication you will return. Caught in another lie

Now you're playing the I'm a sick old man card. And yet you still have issues with many posters here. Ever wonder why? There is still time to figure that one out.

I did offer to leave you alone with a truce a few weeks ago? Remember? You declined. So you get what you deserved with your lies, BS, and bad boxing analysis.

Just remember, I know who you are, and that's what bothers you most. A coward. A liar. And a racists.

Back to Liston...