All good points. Didn't realise it was almost exactly two years after the Thompson fight that Ortiz fought Wilder. Thought it was a lot longer for some reason. Still, two years can be a long time in boxing, and some of the lustre of Ortiz was already beginning to wear off by the time Wilder got to him. There was a real feeling among a lot of fans that the promise he showed in those two fights was something of a flash in the pan. Ortiz performed well against Wilder but then a lot of fighters have performed well against Wilder so it's hard to tell how much of that was down to Ortiz and how much down to Wilder's lack of boxing skill. He was at that time the only credible fighter Wilder had fought since winning the title so it was kind of expected for him to do better than the likes of Molina, Szpilka and co. I'd disagree that Povetkin was appreciably more worn than Ortiz. There just isn't enough evidence to go on there. Even if he was more physically deteriorated he'd had a ton more big fight experience to draw on than Ortiz, so you couldn't automatically consider him a lesser fighter. Had Povetkin and Ortiz fought at that time it wouldn't have been an easy one to predict, and for what it's worth Povetkin performed a lot better against Hammer than Ortiz did in a similar timeframe.
I get a bit tired over all this who ducked who nonsense. It goes nowhere. What's telling is not who a fighter avoided but who they fought and how they fared. Whyte's got an appreciably stronger resume than Ortiz at this stage, so regardless of whether he ducked him or not he's the one trying to make things happen with his career while Ortiz seems content to sit back and wait to get lucky. Boxing's a risk/reward thing, and Ortiz is still perceived as a difficult night for most people, so it's up to him to put himself in a position where fights with bigger names become viable. H2H he's no more dangerous than Povetkin, yet Povetkin has no problems getting big fights because he's built his brand taking on top contenders and champions over the years. People know who he is and respect him. Ortiz, not so much.
Yeah, I get that. Boxing is very much a 'what have you done for me lately' sport, and we're all guilty of having played that game at some point or other.
That makes it sound a bit more fickle than it really is. A lot of people wrote Ortiz off after the Malik Scott fight. I didn't since anyone can have a bad day at the office, especially against a runner and spoiler like Scott. But the underwhelming fights against Dave Allen and Daniel Martz that followed coupled with the drugs bust made me question just how high my expectations for Ortiz should really be. I still give credit to Wilder for the win, the same way I gave him credit for the first Stiverne win, but it's not nearly as impressive as it would have been had he taken him on following the Thompson or even Scott bouts.
theanatolian, why i keep bringing AJ ducking by Ortiz? Because he was talking big how AJ is ducking him and doesn`t even want to hear his name. Yet he reject a career payday, and was trying to blame AJ team for that, yet we all understand after that, that Ortiz and his team rejected career payday and after that they admit it, they f***** up. This is what DUCK mean. Not just Ortiz talking how everyone is ducking him. Now for the Whyte case, your info s****. Go read it again, because the last so call respond, aka another just talking from Ortiz and his team(we all know its all he does), at the end of the article, there is this: Ortiz is talking big, after Whyte is already talking to Chisora. You get the difference? Also Whyte himself clearly stated that Wilder is no one to tell him who he needs to fight in order to set up Wilder fight. Whyte state it perfectly, after Wilder becoming number 1 contender for the WBC, who he face ? The answer is Jason Gavern. Whyte is contender for 2 years and keep fighting tough opponents, and now he will fight Povetkin, a guy who has always been way better and more proven than the old grandpappy. The facts is Ortiz ducked Whyte and this was proven by Whyte. After that Ortiz did just talk and challenge Whyte, when Whyte was about to fight Chisora for more money. As far for Andy Ruiz, you keep forgetting to mention the fights grandpappy took after his Wilder loss. He fought 3 BUMS, 2 of them no one ever heard of them anywhere across the galaxy !!! Fact! Ruiz is with a new trainer, obviously trying to rebuild and looking for tune up fight. Thats not a duck, neither to Povetkin, neither to Whyte, neither to Ortiz. And as we proven with time. Ortiz is just a big mouth. He may challenge, but that doesn`t mean he will backup his word and come fighting. And yeah if we compare the two, Ruiz is the man, because he didn`t cry all night long, but accepted Joshua challenge, goes on and beat AJ and become Champion. You can twist and bias talk as much as you want, you won`t change the facts, you get it ? As far as Joe Joyce as i said i did not follow Joyce, and i give you that if i was incorrect. When i`m wrong i`m wrong.
Dude you don`t know what you are talking. 2 years in boxing is a huge difference. There may be not difference if you are 25 or 28, but yeah big difference from 37 to 39. At that advance age, even 1 year or even better 1 camp may be a huge difference. And did you f****** realize that Tony Thompson was 45 years old when he fought Ortiz? And he come off 3 loses in his last 5 fights, which speaks for itself. So no thats not a good win, that is a paper win. And Jennings is a average mechanic,never ever was a good boxer, who should have drew with Perez.
If i had a pound for every time you posted about that Jennings win i could buy enough toilet roll to get me through isolation
Well, sometimes there are legitimate, clear reasons to suspect or assume a decline; recently, Scott Quigg had been largely inactive for two years off the back of a brutally attritional bout (and a convalescence period), which, in addition to moving even further north of his optimum weight class, did not bode well for his meeting with Jono Carroll, notwithstanding his greater name and his status as betting favorite. But fickleness is certainly a factor in other assumed cases of decline. Not to mention that Wilder's utterances have engendered a certain amount of bad will against him; seizing on excuses to withold credit from those they dislike is a foible of many men (not to say that this is you specifically). I feel differently. Letting your arguments speak for themselves would lend you greater credibility than an opening gambit like that. It can be. Mileage varies. The fact is, Ortiz turned up and performed. There was nothing in his showing vs. Wilder to suggest that he was far removed from the form we'd witnessed a couple years prior. He'd been treading water in those couple years, but he got up for his shot when it came. I did not say that Tony Thompson was in his physical prime or in the middle of his best run of results, nor even that it was an inordinately creditable win. I said that Thompson was still capable of handling himself, had been doing the distance and holding his own with other contenders like Takam and Pulev, and that Ortiz thoroughly whooped him into retirement. That is an indicator of quality. Why are you so angry, by the way? Do you always spew profanity during civil discussions, or is it just an internet thing? He was capable enough to go 12 with the reigning lineal king and win around 4 rounds. That makes him a quite respectable scalp at that time.
Yes there was. Firstable neither Ortiz or Wilder play at some high tempo pace. Yet Ortiz hasn`t had his legs for 12 rounds. He could go as max as he goes - 10 in the first match. The second time he have cardio for even less. Again 2 year after you are 30s are always difference. Especially after 35. From 36 to 38, and lets be real we all know he is older, all cuban lies to their age. So he was about 40 in his first fight and 42. Not even close to his prime. Big difference from Thompson and Jennings. Thompson was not in any shape, not physical, not middle, not nothing. That was not a good win, and shouldn`t even be mention as a some kind of quality or prestige win. And again from Pulev to Ortiz and from Takam to Ortiz there is a 3 year and 2 year gap. Again huge difference, esp. when you are pass you are 40, and even worst when you pass your 45. Also if you don`t know, there isn`t similarity between matches even between fight 1 and fight 2 between the same guy, could be totally different match. Forget about to compare 2 or 3 difference fighter, just because they fought the same guy. And one of them manage to KO, a even older version of not past, but already totally washed fighter. Again you can`t compare difference fights, because style makes fight, but Klitschko was well past it, and that match prove it very well, and Wlad has a lot of trouble with his ex wife now, his baby was born back then and have a lot of issue outside of the ring, who obviously play a role. Again Jennings was beyond average. And again you can`t compare different fights, and esp when one guy already have lost. Ortiz hasn`t beaten not just one undefeated fighter. He hasn`t done that in his whole career, which speaks for the quality of his opposition As far as outboxing Wilder, thats not much of a feat, for god sake - Szpilka was outboxing him .... Again: This content is protected Thats tell you the whole story about the so call "boogeyman".
