Joe Louis Fought Eight Black Fighters

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This is similar to the situation that I think Jack Johnson took advantage of.
     
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  2. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    how many defenses against black contenders had other champions made:

    Sullivan, Corbett, Fitz, Hart, Willard, Dempsey, Tunney, Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera, Baer--0

    Burns--1
    Johnson--1
    Braddock--1

    Jeffries--1* (a gray area as this was a four round exhibition against Griffin. If Griffin had KO'd Jeff he would have had a claim.)

    Louis--4
    Charles--3
    Marciano--4
    Patterson--2
    Johansson--1
    Liston--2
    Ali--4 (up to 1970)
    Frazier--0 (up to 1970)



    How many black opponents and especially contenders had each fought:

    Sullivan--I believe a black opponent before being champion. Ducked contenders.
    Corbett--Jackson. Ducked Jackson as champion.
    Fitz--Johnson. When old, and a couple of middles in non-title fights.
    Jeffries--Griffin, Jackson, Armstrong, Johnson. But ducked Johnson as champion.
    Hart--Johnson
    Burns--Johnson (and I think at least one other early)
    Willard--Johnson
    Dempsey--Emmanuel Campbell, Boston Bearcat, John Lester Johnson (Campbell has only the one listed fight with Dempsey. Bearcat has only four listed fights, all KO defeats. Johnson was a good light-heavy and might have been a top ten fighter at some point if there had been ratings)
    Tunney--none
    Schmeling--Gains, Louis, plus Jack Taylor & Jimmy Lyggett
    Sharkey--Godfrey, Wills, Winston, Louis and also someone named Young Jack Johnson early.
    Carnera--Godfrey, Bearcat Wright, Louis, Haynes, also journeymen Clisby, Clark, Chevalier, and Harris.
    Baer--Louis (and a 43 year old Wright and possibly one or two others in his 1936 tour)
    Braddock--Lewis, Louis
    Louis--Davies, Toles, Lewis, Walcott, Charles, Agramonte, Walker, Bivins, & Davis

    Other than Jack Johnson, who fought a great many black opponents prior to being champion, Louis fought more black opponents, and defended his title against more than any prior champion.

    Of the later white champions, Marciano and Johansson fought about one-third of their fights against black opponents (hard to be exact with Marciano, but probably 16 of his 49 fights. Johansson 9 of 28) and met the best of their time.

    I don't see a color line issue with any of the non-American champs, Fitz, Burns, Schmeling, Carnera, or Johansson.

    Of the white Americans, Jeffries despite his vocal racism and drawing the color line as champion has the best record of meeting top black heavyweights prior to the Louis era, along with Sharkey. Braddock met the top men around during his brief period at the top.

    The other fact I would note is that up to the 1970's, it was still mainly white fighters who were getting the title shots, and mainly with black champions. Charles, Patterson, and Frazier in 1968 & 1969, tended to defend against white challengers. Marciano and Johansson actually made five of their seven defenses against black challengers. Charles, Walcott, Patterson, Liston, Ali, and Frazier (prior to 1970) only made 12 of 31 defenses against black opponents.

    Sort of a silent color line. Things changed in the 1970's to quite a degree, but still second-tier white contenders had a better chance of getting a title shot than similar black contenders.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This is all correct, but I'm not attacking Louis.
     
  4. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I am just giving my overview. I meant no attack on you. Relax.
     
  5. Woller

    Woller Active Member Full Member

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    Schmeling fought Jack Taylor twice, he was black.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If I get any more relaxed I'll be horizontal .
     
  7. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Schmeling also fought jimmy lyggett twice a black boxer he had a win and a draw against him. Lygette was a pretty accomplished fighter. After their second fight and as schmeling’s career progressed he became Schmeling’s sparring partner.
     
  8. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And Schmeling met the top men, Louis and Gains.
     
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  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I believe that Fitz fought more black boxers than that.
     
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  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Schmeling ducked nobody.
     
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  11. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    yes Schmeling faced gains when he was only 19 years old. When he won the title their was serious talk that he wanted to give gains a rematch for the title had he defeated Sharkey - of course Sharkey was gifted a decision and that bout never materialized.
     
  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A shame, Sharkey shouldn't have become a champion. He lost the title in very next fight to Primo Carnera. This decision robbed Schmeling of huge resume boost. He'd likely have beaten Gains at this point, giving him 3 title defenses (4 if he still had Walker fight). Then maybe he'd give a shot to Uzcudun or Carnera, he would have likely beaten both of them. Of course he would likely lose to Baer anyway, but that would make him one of the best HW champions ever to this point. What a shame...
     
  13. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    i agree. It is a shame that he was robbed against Sharkey it does damage his legacy. And yes I agree at that point he likely defeats gains. I doubt he ever faces Primo - I believe they got along outside the ring and with the favorable governments to each other I don’t think that fight would be made.
    Schmeling got rooked twice because he should not have lost the title to Sharkey and then when he defeated Louis he should have received the title shot against Braddock. He very likely wins that. That would of made him not Patterson the first man to regain the title. Either way he would have had career boost. In resume.
     
  14. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man banned Full Member

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    Absolute rubbish !!!! They were playing Basketball
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Not in White leagues.