Pro or amatuer? Hey let's be clear here, I'm not saying steds are going to make you great, but if you give someone halotestin before a fight, they're gonna hit you harder than they could have. Facts. If you give someone straight test, they're gonna throw more than they could have. Useful for a brawler. So if the argument is, would Marciano have been better and bigger on steds, the answer is for sure yes.
Marciano was a beast and was not slow once he started a flury- he beat many good fighters to the punch and he had an aggressive style and came out of a crouch from the catchers position- Joe Frazier copied Marciano's hook Joe was like 205lbs when he beat Ali who weighed 215 in the FOTC. Frazier felt in his prime only 2 men could have beaten him- Joe Louis and Marciano and he felt both would beat Ali. I remember Tyson fought in the under 200lb division, so did Wilder and I remember Riddick Bowe fighting lightheavy in the NY golden gloves. I remember Gerry Cooney winning middleweight in the NY golden Gloves and then getting stopped against Eddie Davis in the light heavy GG - heavyweights fought for distance 15 rounds once they made it to the top so most stayed fit- The 80's -90's on 2 things happened - Super Heavyweights in the amateurs and steroids or whatever they are called. I seen people use them on racehorses and magically horses who never won started winning. The long term affects may be damaging but just look at Juan Marquez in the last Pacquiao fight - look at Povetkin before he got busted - lets see how Jarrell rebounds after being busted The guy in Marques corner was a steroid expert who got busted and snitched- he created enhancers that could not be detected at the time. We have seen the negative reaction that Mike Tyson suffered so there is a price to pay no doubt Marciano or Louis or Frazier or Dempsey on roids would be a scary factor for the opponent Marciano on juice "Forgettaboutit"
I think all this talk of power is kinda silly. A wrecking ball would hit harder then both of those men, but guess what, you'll see it coming. JJ for sure doesn't hit as hard as Muhammad Ali, but someof the punches he ended fights with, would have put any man down regardless of weight. It's the punches you don't see that put you down. Also I think the best example of a fighter overcoming these advantages isn't in the heavier weights, for me Pacquiao vs Margarito is a good reference point.
Where to even begin to unpack the delusions here.... Marciano essentially began his pro career at 25 weighing 185. Pursuant to your above comparisons, at 25, Bowe was 243, Cooney was 225, Tyson was 217.... That's an apples to apples comparison, not what you assert above. Please show me where the greatest superheavies... Bowe, Lewis, Wlad were ever busted for PEDs. Would they all not be 6 foot 5 without supplements? Would their reaches shrink below 80". Would they lack the quickness and balance they possessed? On the converse, would Marciano on gear suddenly have anything but a lightweight's reach and a potato digger's quickness? OK, please show me where are the slow, sub 6 footers with sub-70" reach and bad balance in the heavyweight division over the past 40 years? Then, we can judge the relevance that Marciano would have in the modern era.
There have alway been tall heavyweights in every era - 2 men Primo and Willard were 6'6 and over 250 lbs and there were others who did not make it. Joe Louis would blow up and so did Marciano between fights but train down - remember lifting weights were taboo so without weights its hard to blow up with muscle. I know certain people on these boards don't see past Marciano's size and disregard his strengths - some are haters some just have strong opinions against him and are size worshipers Years ago in the horse racing industry a lot of these enhancers were not tested for, same with boxing and the trick is to find one that is not tested but that is not my area of knowledge. The biggest Champion of all time 7 ft Valuev at 300 lbs of muscle with an 85 inch reach arguably lost to 46 year old Evander Holyfield, the same Evander who was KO'd by former middleweight 5'9 72 inch reach James Toney 5 years earlier
The only silly thing here are the 99,5 %of your threads/posts. It is evident what I am trying to say, Fury has the power to hurt Rocky seriously and here many mention Fury as a dancer who could not hurt marciano and would only run around the ring and that is a bull****
Why are you getting defensive? I never said Fury couldn't hurt Marciano. You might think you're tough pal but if a featherweight lands a clean shot on your chin that you don't see coming, you're probably going down. So yeah, you and all the other people putting so much emphasis on power, are silly.
Simply tall is not equivalent to tall and TALENTED, which means possessing quicks and balance and reflexes. Tye Fields is big. Wlad and Fury and Lewis are TALENTED monsters. Marciano's biggest problem isn't his size, tho that's a huge obstacle. It is the fact that he wasn't very athletically gifted. His hands weren't quick, he didn't get to the target quickly on his feet, he got off-balance far too often... And he simply wasn't as strong as these giants, which matters a lot in modern heavy boxing, moving the opponent, wearing on the opponent... Just look at what Fury did to Wilder in their second fight when he finally chose to "fight big". If it makes you feel good, go ahead and pontificate how competitive Marciano would be against the modern breed. But do yourself a favor and don't hold your breath waiting for anything like him to emerge again.
How can you be serious by attempting to say that Marciano wasn’t athletic? Of course he was athletic. He was good at all sports he played. The best stamina to ever step into a Hw ring. Also enough of the unbalanced myth. He was unbalanced when he started boxing not as he was a contender. You can’t be serious in thinking a man that had an 88 percent KO rate and was only floored twice was so clumsy and unbalanced to be laughed and clowned at. It shows a general lack of understanding of boxing. Because ANyONE who’s stepped in a ring KNoWS the first thing you learn is balance or you get knocked down with everything. He was also faster then Fury. I don’t see where you get that from.
1-so Walcott and Charles weren't skilled heavyweights? What about Joe Louis or Moore? You can't be serious right now. 2-marciano is smaller but much better than chisora. You can't simply tie him up, he was like a pit bull and never stopped tearing away at the body. Even if you block he hit you. Besides, fury's jab and smither strategy would cost him if the ref deducted pojnts. He doesn't have to ko fury, he can out work him. And nobody outworks rocky. 3-wilder has great power but he's a horrible, sloppy finisher with suspect stamina. It doesn't matter if its round 1 or round 15, if rocky has you hurt he will be all over you. He wouldn't let fury off the hook if he had him down like wilder did. 4-fury's pawing tactics and arm punches would not be able to deter rocky. It's even worse if you consider that he'd be punching down at a guy who already had an awkward crouching stance. You need either a powerful ramrod jab or a snappy explosive one to get rocky's respect, and you need a good uppercut and inside ability to fend him off if he does make it up close. You also need to protect your body or rocky will wail away at it. Fury was exposed in the 1st chisora and Otto wallin fights, they both nailed him with dozens of body shots, leaping hooks, overhand rights, and backed fury into the ropes and corners all night. If they weren't mediocre c level fighters, Fury would have lost (in fact, one could argue wallin was robbed of a stoppage win or even a decision win if you put more value in power punching and accuracy). 5-yes rocky was down, but both guys who dropped hin were 2 of the most skilled counter punchers of all time with good accuracy and technique. Moore has the record for KO's across all weight classes. And Rocky got off the floor very quickly and wasnt in bad shape or wobbly legs the rest of the fight. Yes obviously physics would come into play if fury put all his weight in a shot, rocky might get dropped. But as i mentioned fury is surprisingly feather fisted for a guy his size and doesn't know how to get proper leverage or snap into his blows. Rocky would get up no doubt. His conditioning was amazing and he knew how to make himself a small awkward target he didn't just stomp forward and swing away.
Fury stiff armed Cunningham illegally and threw a cheap right from his blind spot. He was a 36 year old C level fighter. His only other noteworthy examples of power are swelling up Chisora's eyes for a stoppage (he was on his feet and his corner ended it), and his questionable stoppage over a gunshy wilder (who was gassed in just 3 rounds and went down from a suspect shot to the ear that ruined his balance) are his only noteworthy stoppages. You have to look at QUALITY and quantity when assessing power. You want to dig up the records of rocky's early opponents? Ok. -Joey Abell lost 3 of his 6 (3 by stoppage) and has been ko'd 8x overall. Not a very durable guy. -Vinny maddalone has 5 ko losses. He was 38 years old when he fought fury. Oh and he couldn't drop or knock him out, it was a stoppage over a cut. -Zack page 37 years old, 6 ft tall, lost 5 of his last 6 (32 losses overall). Fury couldn't knock out or stop him. There's your modern day Ted Lowrey! -feather fisted Selezens lost 4 of his last 6 and retired with 14 losses (3 ko). The guy looked like a gas station cashier and was a flabby flat footed guy with zero athleticism and threw sloppy windmills. In other words the perfect opponent to prove you have punching power. But, Fury couldn't drop him (he ducked low to avoid getting hit and the ref gave a count) despite dozens of flush power shots. The corner actually stopped the fight. Fury's 67% ko ratio is composed of mostly tomato cans and European level opponents prior to his first title fight. Speaking of which, how on earth did he fail to drop or even wobble a 39 year old glass jawed Wladmir Klitschko? Fury has had more than enough opportunity to prove he isn't feather fisted and he's failed this test over and over against bums, journeyman, cherry picks, and old men. Attempting to rip up Rocky's record when Fury's looks this abysmal is a fool's errand. Besides, Rocky was knockout guys OUT for the 10 count even if you want to claim most of his opponents weren't that good. Spot the difference? And if we're talking about age, let's compare the 6 best opponents of both fighters to see how old they were Rocky: -Layne 23 -Lastarza 22 -Louis 37 -Walcott 38 -Charles 32 -Moore 38 Fury: -wladmir 39 -wilder 34 -chisora 30 -Cunningham 36 -Pajkic 34 -McDermott 30 Rocky's best opponents average age: 32 Fury's best opponents average age: 34 If Rocky's best opponents were all "shopworn old men" i guess this is a good matchup since Fury's oppnents were even older!
