Why do people keep calling Tyson's opponents "bums and Holmes leftovers"

Tyson reset the bar in the heavyweight division, a breath of fresh air- He fought everyone that was still relevant - the only reason Smith survived is because he held on for dear life. Smith's nickname changed from bone crusher to bone clutcher

He dispatched Berbick, Tubbs, Spinks, Holmes, Williams,Marvis, and the tough guys Holmes missed like Thomas in proper manor and even fought Razor Ruddock in a rough fight and did not allow anyone else to be called Champion - Shame King and co pulled him away from who was left from the Cus D'Amato team because if he maintained that mindset IMO he would have never lost to Douglas and would have never went to prison.

It was a pleasure after an era of split titles and Champions not fighting to unify - Tyson was a breath of fresh air for boxing fans

 

Holmes fought Smith who was 14-1, Bey who was 14-0-1, Ocasio who was 13-0, Spinks who was 10-2-2, Marvis who was 10-0 - Smith lost 3 of his next 4 fights after the Holmes loss- Mr Magoo is right about Smith being as green as they come

 

Putting aside that Tyson was pretty much a confused mess with poor character most of his career as a person, the 86 - 88 Tyson was an exceptional physical marvel who dominated as tough an era of challengers as anyone .. Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Briggs (pass on Holmes) , Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno, Williams were all big, tough, athletic and either in or close to their primes .. go through all of those fights and try and tell me how many rounds Tyson actually lost .. saying those guys were nothing is absurd ..

 

Holmes gave lots of title shots to lots of guys for unwarranted reasons. Smith’s only rating was Number 11 by the WBC . Larry was supposed to fight both John Tate and Gerrie Coetzee in 1984 but both of those fell through which is why Smith got the opportunity. Had nothing to do with his experience and certainly nothing that Larry saw in him

 

Mike was an absolute breath of fresh air during his first title reign. He was a throw back to Ali in the fact he would fight anyone unlike Holmes who was always pretty canny in who he fought and nobody could argue that the standard of Mike's challengers wasn't better than Larry's. Larry fought some really ordinary opponents early in his reign.

Tyson was also one of if not the most exciting heavyweight champion of all times. He made nine defences in just over three years. I always reckoned his decline began post the Spinks fight as he didnt fight as often as before. Of course being a short, attacking style heavyweight he was never going to have a really long prime as all of those sort of fighters ( Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier ) tend to hit the wall eventually unlike boxer types.

To be honest I never loved Mike as a fighter for various reasons but I cannot deny what he accomplished in his first title reign.

Cheers Everyone.

 

Larry Holmes fought Evangelista, Ossie Ocasio ( I realise Holmes fought the Puert Rican because he had beaten Young but Ossie was a 13-0 fighter, barely more experienced than the Leon Spinks old Ali fought ), Mike Weaver who was 19-8 and had only beaten one name fighter, Bernardo Mercado, Ernie Shavers ( who Larry had already beaten easily ), Lorenzo Zanon, Leroy Jones, Scott LeDoux and Ali who was beyond shot. Even Berbick had only one noteworthy win, a kayo of Big John Tate who had already been starched by Weaver in his previous fight.

I loved Holmes as a fighter unlike Tyson but Larry sure did fight a lot of mediocrities up to the Cooney fight.

Cheers All.

 

Another great post and totally agree. He was fighting about every three months leading into Spinks then spaced out more. Mentally he was a guy that needed that constant action and training and when he didn't have it he wandered.

 

He shut up shop after the Witherspoon scare too (who was thought to be an easy defense). A Witherspoon rematch was refused, no interest in Thomas or other more difficult opponents. Williams was taken as he was seen as easy. One interesting article mentioned how he sat down to determine whether he would fight Williams and after having seen him dropped twice by James Tillis in the first round said yep lets do it. He didn't see Williams excellent boxing performance where he outpointed Tillis with ease over the rest of the fight.

Tyson was actively chasing the best. He won the other two titles in his next three bouts and took on notable guys basically non stop.

If you look at the Ring ratings mid 87 Tyson fought 9-10 of them in his run and the one he missed was knocked out by Smith in 1 round with Tyson lined up to unify that title.

That is what you call taking on all comers.

 

I'm not a big Tyson fan but I do think he was unfortunate that there was no career defining fight available to him when he was at his best. You can't discuss his career without mentioning Holyfield and Lewis even if you try to explain away the Buster Douglas defeat.

 

This thread makes clear that Tyson's opposition during his title run & as an '80's champion was very good indeed.
The quality, size, records, & frequency of Tyson's fights puts him way up there.
You can deconstruct the vast majority of HWs reigns & see that the average opposition was worse.

Now as an all time raning Tyson suffers due to his psychological problems.
But at his best Tyson was superb.
And one of the very best head to head.
With Ali maybe the best h2h at his peak-certainly likely for guys below SHW size!
And at least without the insane excessive clinching they allow for years now...

Tyson beats almost all SHW guys in his prime anyway.

 

But sometimes the young upcoming fighters are more of a problem and more dangerous than experienced fighters that have just idled and done nothing in their career.

 

This is true. I've watched bit of Tyson lately. He's very left hook happy. Once he come ins, you tie up his left arm and lean on him in a clinch, he's not so dangerous. Or just jab at him or hit him with a lead right hand when he's coming in.

 

Dempsey had a better resume.

 

Ledoux and Evangelista may have made things difficult for prime Tyson

 

No, he didn't. Not even close.