Skillsets Are Overated on ESB, While Effectiveness Is Underated... Agree?

Mostly move people, I run a little freelance labour pool for just about anything here, find tons of jobs and have a bunch of people who need extra cash and come along on them, with me taking a finders fee and most of the time doing the majority of the work in desperate attempt to get it done as fast and proficient as possible.:yep

The time is most important to me, I'd rather have excruciatingly hard work for 4 hours, then have easy as pie work for 8 hours, as that's an extra 4 hours from my personal time.

It's ****ing brutal, but lately I have not been hurting for money despite a hefty rent, so I'm grateful for such.

 

Abso-****in-lutely!! :thumbsup

It's sickening how certain fighters are downright laughed at by the elitist ******* on this site. As if you have to be a perfect text book boxer in order to gain respect by these pricks.

If anything, a limited boxer making it far deserves more respect, since they didn't have all the tools. Heart and will are very underrated here.

 

Agree with this, hence calling him one dimensional still. Still, the point is as shown vs Diaz he does possess other facets to his game. Same with Kessler. Kess does possess other elements to his game. However none really great enough to change his style through a fight in order to win against a top level fighter, should his bread and butter not work. This was evident vs Calzaghe for me, as once Calzaghe started outboxing him from the outside, he really had no effective way of adapting.

Agree with this, although i don't think he is THAT much more well rounded than Pac. His infighting ability looked pretty awkward against Andrade for instance, although it was adequate. Pac has also shown greater ability as a boxer puncher in recent times, with his most recent fight being a clear example of this. While he still didn't fight well backing up or show great defence, his overall movement for both head and feet was much improved.

I understand what you are saying here. That against Zeurteche for instance and even Miranda, he makes it far more competitive than he should for a supposed top level fighter. To be honest i think he has definitely shown improvement as a fighter since these fights though. An ability to use his head more, and keep fighters at the end of his punches, not just try and go to war. However overall, a valid point.

A lot of this can also be attributed to styles though. For instance, guys like Jeff Fenech would always have very competitive and gruelling fights, even with guys who weren't as good. Due to his style. Ivan Claderon when faced with the same skill disparity, would win every round without getting tagged. Doesn't mean that p4p Calderon is better than Fenech. More so that is style is more safety first. Definitely the case when comparing Pav and Kess.

How do you think Kess would go against Dawson? A terrible style match up IMO. How would he box against someone again who would appear to be longer, faster and better from the outside? WHat can he do here to win?

Who on the site doesn't like top level fighters though? I don't see many Ruiz nuthuggers or supporters of gatekeepers... Where is the lovemore Ndou fan club? Pac, Mayweather, Cotto, Calzaghe, Kess are all the most popular fighers on this site. All top level. Don't understand how anyone could have a go at you about that without contradicting themselves.

 

the #1 thing AA has going against him vs Pavlik is the height AA is what 5'9"- 5'10" he will have to takes risks and get in Pavliks power zone he will not survive this, his only hope is to land a hayemaker but again once kelly starts to reach him its over.

 

he does it with his length and height also a thudding jab followed by a booming over hand right it keeps opponents at a good distance and tentative enabling Kelly to work at his pace and stalk.

 

Abraham has the strength and chin to get inside. There has been nothing to in his career that leads me to believe he won't have the ability to hit Pavlik.

 

A turtle shell defence against a guy with good power, long straight punches and a high work rate will be punched to shreds IMO. Even through the gloves vs Lockett you could see the damage that Pav was doing. I have no doubt pav will hurt AA through his gloves if he decides to just sit and tutrle shell waiting for his counter punching opportunities.

On the flip side, Pav has a tendacy to leave his chin out there, and his high punch volume won't work in his favour in this regard. Pavlik will no doubt get tagged by AA and hard. The question is whether or not he can take his best punch, or at least avoid taking them too often...

Both these guys have advantages over one another. Unless Abraham can KO Pavlik (still a good chance) i can't see him winning this one. Pavlik needs to make sure he keeps Abraham on the end of his reach, and doesn't try and smother himself like Miranda. I think he can and will personally.

 

I think Abraham will KO him. If not, Pavlik by UD.

But I think it's selling Abraham short to think Abraham won't get inside and hit him. I don't think Pavlik can take Abraham's best punch. Especially if he is caught while throwing.

 

Fair enough. I don't think AA won't get inside. I just think for the most part, Pav will have what it takes to keep the fight where he wants to. I think Pav is tough enough to pull through, although wouldn't be surprised to see him go down. No doubt Pav will be more cautious than he was vs Taylor, as AA is a known puncher.

 

let me put it this way Jermain Taylor is better than anyone Kessler has ever beaten. Kelly did it twice. Kessler has gotten rave reviews out of two things losing to Calzaghe and a skill set which is the point of this thread. I say Kelly will win because of intangibles and he is the greater
force of nature.

I say Kessler has weak defense he moves straight back and stands straight as a stick. The mans offense is almost Statue like there is no rythym the guy is stiff and while Kelly is no Fred Astaire he is much more effective with what he does. That stiffness of Kessler is why Calzaghe ran rings around him.

However the proof is in the pudding I think Kessler gets knocked off even before fighting Pavlik and I see Jermain or AA doing it mark my words. The moment Kessler steps it up he is gone.

thats what makes these forum interesting when and if they meet we can see if our assesments are correct you and I should know it can go either way. see you at the fights.

 

I agree with this. The way I see this is: 30% chance Pavlik KO, 40% Pavlik decision, 30% Abraham KO, <1% Abraham decision

This is going to be a great fight either way (the best made at middleweight imo). Abraham can surely drop Pavlik if he lands a flush power shot, and I actually wouldn't be surprised to see both guys hit the canvas at some point in a potential foty

 

Mstr- When I'm not under the influence of alcohol, I'll talk about Kessler Dawson in depth and we'll go over all factors to see if we can deteremine who ought to be favored.:good

 

hahaha, too easy mate.

 

Re: Skillsets Are Overated on ESB, While Effectiveness Is Underated... Agree?

Suppose so. I had JMM beating Pac, taylor vs Pavlik a draw, and didn't score Calzaghe vs b-hop but thought it was close. Was heavily under the influence at the time though and will concede Calzaghe won, but not Pac.

I like boxers though. Give me RJJ and PBF over Pavlik etc any day of the week.