Seventeen fights and hes a legend. Funny. Last time i checked Sonny Liston was a heavy. How about Foreman? Frazier? All cruiserweights? Oliver Mccall is 6'2 little boy and last I checked he SMOKED Lewis in TWO. Who ever knocked Ali out? NOBODY. Whoever dropped Ali TWICE in one fight? NOBODY. Bugner was 6'4 with an 82 inch reach. LOST to Ali. How about Mathis SR. He was 6'4 280 pounds and fast. Little cruiserweight JOE FRAZIER KNOCKED him out giving up about 90 pounds.
Exactly, Ali was probably 6'1"-6'2" max. He's a ****ing cruiserweight. Hell Foreman would be a tiny heavy now at 6'3" 220lbs.
Buster Mathis Jr was the biggest heavyweight of his time but he was also a **** boxer. You kinda need the skills to go with the size to make it work. That's why we say that he fought mostly cruiserweights because th,ere were a few exceptions of fat turds with low skill getting battered back then. Joe Bugner was fighting old flabby Ali who was an actual heavy in fairness and he also wasn't that good a fighter. Shame Ali wasn't nearly as good when he was an actual heavy.
Ali at 25 weighed 201lb against Cooper, and I cant see any difference in height when they stand together
Usyk has beaten guys like Majidov, Joyce, Beterbiev, etc. in the amateurs and WSB, along with most of the top Crusier weights. Most of them IMO are better than anybody Ali faced in the 60s. If Usyk was fighting people like Folley, Chuvalo, London, Patterson, Terrell, Mildenberger, Williams, and Cooper, think how fast Usyk would look against that pedestrian group. Ali was the first big, fast athlete in boxing, he didn't look so fast when he started fighting other "athletes" in the 70s. Usyk is a better conditioned athlete, with better skills, plus he is a southpaw. And, I do value the strength and speed training that he does. He does things like walk on his hands, 20+ pull ups, dance moves, etc. show his athleticism goes beyond the ring. Some think that athleticism doesn't matter in boxing, those are mostly people who have no experience in boxing. Somebody mentioned Buster Mathis? LOL, he was 243 against Frazier and he was FAT, Frazier weighed 204, so the weight difference was 39 pounds. Mathis was 256 against Ali , and he hadn't fought in close to 3 years and Ali had to go the distance with him...does that mean that Ali couldn't hurt bigger fighters? That was 27 pounds bigger than Ali's next biggest opponent who weighed 230, Ali couldn't stop him either...his next biggest opponent weighed 225 and had been stopped 6 times and Ali had to go 15 with him...is there a pattern here? Ali struggled with bigger men, even if they weren't top contenders?
You mad bro, Usyk beat Breidis in his hometown, and he beat him fair and square, a draw would not have been fair. Usyk beat him by all means. Usyk will beat Ali for sure. Most of today boxer are superior to the old ones, its just how the sport and world are. Back in the days, their defence and guards were so bad. We are talking about h2h, not who is the greatest of the two, and this one is obvious - Ali.
yeah, I’m aware that Usyk went to Latvia and won a close decision against an elite cruiser in breidis. ELITE win. did you know a past prime went to Zaire and knocked out prime George Foreman, who would go on to regain the heavyweight title in his mid 40s? Usyk has an ELITE cruiser record. He doesn’t have a record at heavy. Ali has an ELITE heavy record. Proven. again, I’m no back in the day fetish weirdo, as I do believe athletes evolve generally, but come on? To say Usyk would beat ali after beating breidis(again, an elite cruiser win) i just can’t comprehend that. let’s not forget Ali was robbed of 4 years. And I also want to add, people may think of him as the greatest, but i don’t think Ali was that great as a person. A racist, shameful against Frazier and I’m gutted joe never won 2 out of 3 over Ali. but I’m keeping it real.
You wanna know why? Ali was a cruiserweight with little stopping power for heavies. Overrated and endlessly arselicked. The man would die in the ring with today's heavyweights.
I generally agree that it’s almost a sin on here to say ali would lose to fury, aj, Lennox etc. I think he would. usyk, let’s see how he does at heavy first
Ali has an elite cruiser record because the heavyweights he beat were mostly cruisers who didn't cut weight. Ali lost three years of his career, same as Tyson Fury but he didn't go out of shape, do drugs, drink or practice too little. Thing is he used it as an excuse as to why he was crap against Frazier the first time rather than him being poorly prepped for a man who wanted to kill him in there. Sure Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena must've been the bummiest of bums if they couldn't beat an Ali who came in there three years inactive and seriously declined, let alone be pummeled by him. He didn't decline that much, in fact he probably improved certain things, it's just, you know, styles make fights and a quietly determined man will beat the loud and cocky one most often.
again, I’m not a back in the day man. You fight who’s who of the time period. The top heavies of the time Frazier, foreman, Lyle, Norton(controversial) etc. Those were the heavies. Now heavyweight means something different, however the belts are much Easier to win. fat Andy ko’d Joshua. Fury has had a few frights. 6 7 wilder was a 5 year champ and is berated on here. holyfield showed the world that cruisers can step up and become a heavy ATG. foreman showed the world that 70s guys could compete despite being fat and mid forties. Let’s see how Usyk develops. He’s 33. He needs to put the foot on the gas. Holyfield was undefeated unified heavyweight champ at 28.
Holyfield also had a pharmacy for a bloodstream so I'll take his example of moving up in weight successfully with a massive grain of salt. I consider past heavies modern cruiserweight greats. The real heavyweights of today only really came about in the 80s and 90s. Belts are easier to win only on the virtue that there are more belts. The likes of Ali, Frazier and Foreman of the 70s could only hope to have a David Haye like career at heavyweight nowadays hence why it's hard to take them seriously as heavyweight greats. They're "amateur heavyweight" greats at this point and today we live in the world of super heavies.
