Holmes vs. Cooney, fresh eyes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020.


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  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Holmes vs. Cooney, fresh eyes

    My Scorecard:

    rd 1 ) 10-9 - Holmes round
    rd 2 ) 10-8 - Knockdown, Cooney hurt, makes it out of the round as he was down late
    rd 3 ) 9-10 - Cooney's round
    rd 4 ) 9-10 - Cooney Round's, Holmes hurt with a body shot late
    rd 5 ) 10-10 - An even round
    rd 6) 10-9 - Holmes round, landing more often and cleaner
    rd 7 ) 10-9 - Cooney cut over the eye, Holmes right punching scoring
    rd 8 ) 9-10 - Good action round, perhaps Cooney's best round
    rd 9 ) 10-8 - Hard Low blow, point taken, Holmes glove might have steered Cooney's head downwards.
    rd 10 ) 10-9 Good action round, I gave it to Holmes
    rd 11 ) 10- 9 - Clearly Holmes
    rd 12 ) 10-9 - Clearly Holmes, Cooney still game
    rd 13 ) All Holmes Cooney's legs are gone. TKO

    Observation on Holmes. He had some trouble with Cooney's body shots and height, but showed tremendous recuperations power to the head body and even after being hit with a hard low blow. Holmes jab and right hand and jab were good. Cooney kept coming forward. His guard was lower, to protect against those body shots. When Holmes was on his toes, the fight was easy for him. He also had a corner edge, with Ray Arcel. Larry fought a economical fight, and stayed off the ropes. There was little clinching.

    Observation on Cooney: He was more durable than given credit for and had heart. Holmes, who I would call a solid hitter, landed some clean right hands. Cooney took most of them well. Cooney's problem was he was stiff with no head movement and lacked a straight right when he needed one. He did have Holmes hurt for a second or two to the head and body, but Holmes was too durable and recuperated well. Still, Cooney proved he could give Holmes a competitive fight and, in hindsight, deserved his #1 ranking.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020
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  2. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Morlocks, Apr 18, 2020
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  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Not sure what you mean. I'm not a big Cooney fan. He was competitive vs. a prime Holmes, a heavyweight I see as a top all time 5 great.

    If Cooney developed an additional two 2 years, he might have been able to beat Larry Holmes who was at the very end of his prime when this fight happened. I went over Cooney's flaws. No head movement, and an underdeveloped right. His durability was fine as was his heart. His trainer, who catches heat I thought gave Cooney the right tips during the fight.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020
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  4. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Some don't give credit were credit is due Mendoza, for whatever reason some posters on this site have a almost unnatural hatred for Cooney, and refuses to see he fought a competitive fight against Holmes, and if he could've got his head on straight after this fight he easily could've won at least a version of a heavyweight championship.
     
    Flash24, Apr 18, 2020
    Flash24, Apr 18, 2020
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  5. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Morlocks, Apr 18, 2020
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  6. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    Cooney did ok against Holmes, but never looked like a winner on the night, and I'm not convinced he really had the potential or ceiling to ever get much better than this fight. Not fighting in thirteen months beforehand might not have helped his case, so maybe there's some benefit of the doubt to be given there, but I've just never been that impressed with him. Ford and Moretti's cards (which would have had him ahead after twelve without the point deductions) flattered Cooney massively.

    Great left hook which he could use high and low - can't take that from him. Also a big, imposing guy by the standards of the 80s crop which gave his opponents something to think about. But he was cumbersome, badly lacking in agility and coordination. The fight wasn't fought at a particularly heady pace, but even then Cooney was starting to look tired by about the eighth round with his technique looking really sloppy.

    Agree with you that Holmes fought an economical fight. Holmes was fantastic at pacing himself over the long haul. If you look purely at rounds won, forgetting the deductions, it's not outrageous to say that Holmes was 'only' 7-5 ahead after twelve (though it was probably a shade wider). But I don't think that tells the whole story. Holmes picked his moments to step his game up, and when he did Cooney didn't have the answers and looked out of his depth, which ultimately he was. Cooney didn't fully extend Holmes, and I'm positive that Larry still had an extra gear left in reserve which he could have slipped in to during this fight if he needed it.
     
    88Chris05, Apr 18, 2020
    88Chris05, Apr 18, 2020
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  7. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Excellent
     
    The Morlocks, Apr 18, 2020
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  8. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I gave Cooney rounds 3,4,5,8,10 - ten was epic and Holmes finished stronger but Cooney did better for the first two minutes.

    I think it’s a classic fight I really enjoy watching it - and seeing what Holmes was trying to achieve with his strategy and watching Cooney apply a steady pressure with a seek and destroy mentality.

    I’ve had the pleasure of meeting both men and they are both nice and get along great today.
     
    The Long Count, Apr 18, 2020
    The Long Count, Apr 18, 2020
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  9. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Something is wrong with you dude. I'm pretty sure you have a lot of IF's in your life also. I'm not a Cooney fan, but I do respect any man brave enough to get in a boxing ring in front of millions knowing you could get embarrassed at any second after that 1st bell ring. How many times have you been 19-0 in ANYTHING? How many World Championships have you fought for? Respect is due any man brave enough to get in a boxing ring with bad intentions for your opponent and he having bad intentions for you. A little respect for the fighter. What's so hard about that? What's so hard about you accepting others having a different opinion from you on Cooney ? Obviously you can't accept that without petty name calling.
     
    Flash24, Apr 18, 2020
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  10. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Morlocks, Apr 18, 2020
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  11. DavidBarnes

    DavidBarnes Member banned Full Member

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    Welcome to internet boxing fans
     
    DavidBarnes, Apr 18, 2020
    DavidBarnes, Apr 18, 2020
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  12. DavidBarnes

    DavidBarnes Member banned Full Member

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    Bums who have never boxed
     
    DavidBarnes, Apr 18, 2020
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  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    That's about as much as you can give Cooney on the cards. I'll agree rounds 5 and 10 could have went either way. I had Holmes up by 7 points ( Knockdown and low blow ) going into the 13th rounds Ford and Moretti's cards were bad. Roth had a solid card. Had this been 12 rounds, there probably would have been re-match. But it was 15, and Cooney gasses a bit. Some of the round Holmes won 10-9 he sort of took them in the last 30 seconds or so.
    • Judge: [url]Jerry Roth[/url] 115-109
    • Judge: [url]Duane Ford[/url] 113-111
    • Judge: [url]Dave Moretti[/url] 113-111
    • Unofficial AP scorecard: 116-109 Holmes
    • Unofficial KO magazine scorecard: 118-107 Holmes
    There were times in the fight from rounds 3-8 where it looked like Cooney was a real threat to take it. Only Holmes was just too durable, technical, fast and composed to allow that to happen. If Cooney wanted to lose and go the distance, I think he could have. He tried to win.

    History shows us Homes had stopped 10 of his last 11 people in title defense. By no means was Larry an easy guy to go the distance with.

    Outside of Norton, and Witherspoon, Cooney likely gave Holmes his toughest test.

    No sour grapes here. As Holmes said as they touched gloves, " Let's have a good fight ", and that's what happened.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020
    Mendoza, Apr 18, 2020
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  14. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 banned Full Member

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    "Cooney fans"

    White people, you mean
     
    andrewe, Apr 18, 2020
    andrewe, Apr 18, 2020
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  15. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 banned Full Member

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    Hey man Charlie Zelenoff is like 147-0 so...
     
    andrewe, Apr 18, 2020
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