Hypothetical match-ups between Muhammad Ali vs pretty much everybody have been done to death. The consensus I gather from reading around forums like this, is that a prime or near-prime 60s Ali would beat anybody in boxing history, including the super heavyweights. But what about a 1970s Muhammad Ali, up to and including Thrilla in Manilla? A noticeably slower Ali, who couldn't consistently dance as much as he used to, and who took way more punches than he did during pre-exile. How would he fare against the more modern day super heavyweights, in particular: Lewis, the Klitschkos, Fury, AJ and Wilder? I.e. how would you see fights against them play out, and why? I'm convinced he'd consistently beat Wilder. If Shavers, Foreman or Frazier couldn't knock him out, then I don't give him much of a chance. But what about the others? Would the height, reach, skill, weight and strength prove too much for the ageing boxer?
He'd school AJ, Vitali and Wilder. The first two are two robotic to beat him, and Wilder is too reckless and just not good enough. Lewis, Bowe and Fury are entirely different propositions. They're too good for 70s Ali imo. Futch would make Bowe the blueprint to beat Ali, Bowe's aggression and size would beat Ali on points. Lewis and Fury are too big and too savvy boxers for a slowing, aging Ali. Wlad is a tough one, he's slower and robotic, but Ali likes to clinch and he ain't beating Wlad in that department, or a jabbing game. I think Wlad could nick it, but FOTC Ali was quick enough to win imo.
lets not forget that all guys that came after Ali had the knowledge of his rope a dope tactics and style to train for years. All the trainers knew far better how to train their heavys to beat a guy with Ali's abilities. Not that all those super heavys would have beat him, no way, just saying that having blueprints of what he did in the past makes it unfair advantage for the dudes in the future that we hoped could time travel, lol
We can assume 70s Ali would also have footage of their fights too. And it's not like boxers of Ali's time didn't know about the rope-a-dope. Joe Frazier very much understood it for example, and yet we still see Ali work with it in Manilla
1970s version of Ali is VERY different. Ali looked phenomenal in Jerry Quarry rematch, completely dominating him. He won basically every second of the fight against top contender and hurt him on multiple occasions before stopping him (not on cuts). He looked great against Foreman and the second Frazier fight. That version of Ali is very different to the one that struggled bady against Young, had tough time against Shavers or got a gift from the judges in the third fight against Norton. I think stylistically Tyson Fury would be the toughest fight for Ali among all those giants followed by Riddick Bowe and Wilder with his lack of skills and very low boxing IQ would be by far the easiest one
Ali up to 1976 would beat them all. His speed might have decreased but he was still fast, extremely accurate, exercised ring generalship, had the best chin boxing probably has ever seen(perhaps to his detriment) and championship heart and this was in the days of15 rounds.
Ali liked to clinch and his control his opponents a lot. No way could he do that AJ, the Klitschkos or Lewis. I could see him getting manhandled by those guys
I can see him outboxing Wilder. Haven't seen much of Vitali to be honest. But how would he beat Joshua and stop him getting inside? Clinching and holding his hand behind his head won't work due to his larger height, weight and strength. And rope-a-dope can only do so much against an opponent who's aware of it.
If Foreman and Shavers could not manhandle him none of the guys you mention could. A factor often overlooked with Ali is how physically strong he was.
I think 70's Ali does better than 60's Ali, stronger, heavier and more robust imo. I agree with your whole post but the Vitali bit, Vitali is robotic, but he's also much bigger and stronger, and it's also hard to pick a round he lost let a lone a fight. Great ring generalship an iq
Without his legs it's hard for him to deal with men so much bigger than him once he comes down off his toes. Ali was beatable, there's to many excuses made for the lay off, prime Joe Frazier always beats him, Norton showed what a jab,height and self belief could do to Ali. Larry Holmes has a huge chance of beating prime Ali also.
Why would Foreman and Shavers be the pinnacle of heavyweight strength? They were all within a few pounds of each other, between 210 and 220 for that stretch of their careers. They're closer to Chris Byrd size and the divisions outgrown them. It's a different ballgame, giving up 20,30,40 pounds to a modern trained athlete and trying to overpower them. That matters to a clincher like Ali when the modern guys are all schooled heavily in it, too.
There's no way Shavers and Foreman were as strong as Joshua or the Klitschkos. These guys had modern day nutrition and strength training programs-plus they're natrually bigger- which is the one thing nobody would claim is worse than in the past. Maybe harder punches, but certainly not stronger in terms of body strength. Ali and Foreman weren't too far apart in terms of weight. Definitely not the case when it comes to the super heavyweights.
Well Ali was noticeably slower after his lay off, so these excuses aren't invalid. The one time he moves around like his old self in Ali vs Frazier II for 12 rounds, he gets a unanimous decision. And Frazier gave it his all in Manilla, and what happened there? I wouldn't back Frazier against a prime Ali.
