Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano

I think this might be overstating things somewhat. And it also provokes The unmanliest of thoughts.

I really don’t know why @swagdelfadeel brought up Marshall and Williams in the first place. I was happy to stick to strategic technical strengths of each fighter...

 

You know I'm right though, if it were Marciano who finished a fight with a broken jaw, then you'd be all over it as a feat of great heart.

You never discuss the 'technical strengths', you defend Marciano's career and tear down the other guys.

 

Sadly, for some on here, Marciano is all they got.

If he was a Samoan or from Eastern Europe, they would look upon him more realistically.
Christ, there are 2 or 3 on here who have him no.1 h2h, have him beating every heavyweight that ever lived.
That is totally absurd.

It is blind hero worship.

 

That injury was real, you clueless chump.
Liston had been carrying a recuring shoulder injury for over a year. During the fight, it aggravated even more as he tore a tendon in his shoulder, a fact which was later confirmed by the chief physician for the Miami Beach Boxing Commission.
In the aftermatch of the fight, During the night, a team of eight doctors inspected Liston’s arm at St. Francis Hospital in Miami Beach and agreed that it was too badly damaged for Liston to continue fighting. The torn tendon had bled down into the mass of the biceps, swelling and numbing the arm. Those findings were confirmed in a formal investigation immediately after the fight by Florida State Attorney Richard Gerstein, who also noted that there was little doubt that Liston went into the fight with a sore or lame shoulder.
And in their second fight Liston took a dive.

Here's an interesting fact for you Ali fanboy: Inter-Continental Promotions, a company in which Liston and his manager Jack Nilon had a major stake, had signed a $50,000 contract in October 1963 securing the rights to promote Cassius Clay's next fight after the Liston-Clay fight, a contract which became far more valuable since Ali was champ.

GTFOH, clueless chump. Duran is one of the best of all time, top 10.
He simply quit cause he had health problems caused by the fact that he had to shed the weight he had gained after the first fight too quick.
SRL arranged a rematch very shortly after the first bout because he knew Duran would eat and drink a lot, put on a lot of weight, struggle to get rid of it and come into the bout in poor shape. That's why Duran quit. It was a cheap move by that cowardly ***** SRL, who always tried to cheat his way to a win.
A true warrior wants to face the best possible version of his opponent, not one in bad shape.
SRL is a disgrace, not a warrior. He also robbed Hagler of a clear win.

 

It's exhausting in its stupidity... and willful stupidity at that.

 

Spinks had 4 wins at heavyweight, all against shot fighters. One of them was a no name. Two of them, many felt he was very lucky to win.

I never said Dejohn was of the quality of the above listed men. I said Liston faced punchers, and went through adversity to beat them. You seem to be arguing with yourself here.

Again, it's a known fact that he came into the bout with a known injury and attempted to get it postponed beforehand. We have multiple doctors, well respected attorneys, and officials who testified to his injuries, seeing his x-rays, etc. We have you, someone who likely wouldn't give credit to Liston had he gotten shot in the ring and continued to fight. Who do you think I'm going to believe?

 

I think this is terrible, backwards logic.

Just because Liston (an elite fighter) might’ve struggled with some boxers who aren’t on his level over his career doesn’t mean he’d automatically (or even likely) struggle with the same people Marciano (another elite fighter) did.

Boxing is weird. Liston could destroy the people Marciano almost stumbled over just as Marciano could do the same to Liston’s tormentors. But it’s all speculation and it tells you nothing about who’d win or who is the better fighter.

 

Both Liston & Foreman bring out the worst in them.
Those 2 names are who they fear the most.

 

The first sentence of your's was wrong. Maricano at that age was retired, and sipping out of a coconut. I'm done trying to educate you. Next time you want more lessons, tell mommy and daddy they better pay. Until then you're on ignore.

 

Same here. Absolute ridiculous.

You guys can debate all you want about Liston quitting and Walcott beeing in his prime and stuff. Its not relevant here.

This one is like putting Robero Duran or Jake LaMotta against Ingemar Johansson or Jerry Quarry. 30 pounds difference.
Plus Liston could jab or bang from the outside too.
Like Dwight Qawi facing trimmed Ray Mercer.
Like putting Quarry himself into the ring with Lennox Lewis.
.....

 

And I agree that all fighters struggle with men not on their level while developing. Which is why I think it is worth demonstrating that all fighters struggle like this ...as a comparison.

There is always a point in somebody’s career where a certain guy can be a problem.

All I said was with Marshall and Whitehurst in mind Lowrey and Lastarza could be just as much as a problem for Sonny, since they were Rockys Marshall and Whitehurst.

There is nothing backward about saying Whitehurst and Marshall were Listons Lowrey And Lastarza.

 

Not me. I’ve always rated Ali and Louis as #1 and #2

 

Spinks still would have beat all 3 of the fighters you listed.

Now you're lying. You literally said that Liston fought through more adversity than Tyson and went on to site DeJohn, Williams, and Valdes as your evidence.

I think you're more focused on trying to "win" an argument than you are trying to have a fruitful discourse. You'll believe whatever you think will help your argument.

It's completely fine and rational to believe that Liston would beat Marciano. It's also fine and rational to believe Marciano would beat Liston. What isn't rational is lying and making ridiculous comparisons like saying Liston was more battle tested and fought through more adversity than Tyson. Liston fought in one of the weakest eras in heavyweight history while Tyson fought through one of the strongest. There is no comparison to make.

 

What do you think this is then:

Right here on this very thread, right before your eyes!