Tommy Hearns, The Thread

he was great for sure,, and underrated. i also rank him above hagler

 

Great initial post, @George Crowcroft.

I think there's a reasonable claim to be made that Hearns starts as favourite (albeit very narrowly in a couple of cases) against any Welterweight in history in a one-off fight, and that includes Robinson. Yes, Leonard beat him, and it was a brilliant and completely legitimate victory. But given that he was behind on the cards at the time of the stoppage, and that Hearns always seemed to have something of a stylistic hold over him as evidenced by their rematch years later (different weight that time, of course), I think there's reason to believe that had they fought a series at 147, Leonard winning might have been the exception rather than the rule, or they at least might have been level-pegging. We'll never know for sure, but if like me you think that Leonard was every bit as special a Welterweight talent as Robinson (albeit he doesn't have the numbers at 147 that Robinson does, and doesn't compare as a Middleweight) then it's food for thought.

Tommy wasn't on the championship scene long enough at Welter to trouble the upper echelons of the division, and of course did lose his defining fight there, but on a head-to-head basis I honestly can't see more than three, four at the most guys who would have beaten him there. It's just bad luck for Hearns that one of them happened to be around at the same time as him.

McCallum at 154 would have been very interesting, given McCallum's durability, tendency to come on stronger in the late stages of fights and body attack, which a couple of opponent employed as a tactic to slow Hearns down. I'm a little on the fence on that one and feel that McCallum could be outboxed or outslicked by really fantastic technicians, which Hearns certainly was...But he was also vulnerable and didn't always box the smartest fights, as we know. Consider me on the fence for that one.

If Hearns had a slightly more cast iron jaw and a shade more ring intelligence (as you allude to, he didn't learn to handle a crisis until a bit later in his career, the Kinchen fight being a good example), there's a chance we'd be talking about him now as a credible rival to Robinson for all-time pound for pound supremacy. The guy could overpower and outbrawl dangerous, sometimes even murderous punchers like Roldan and Cuevas, and could outbox brilliant pure technicians like Leonard, Benitez and Hill, even when past his best for the latter. He just sometimes didn't quite have that durability and clear-headedness on those rare occasions when an opponent was able to offset his immense physical gifts and advantages.

But unlike some of the weight-hopping, PPV charlatans we see today, Hearns really did deserve every bit of his superstar rating. Tremendous fighter.

 

I've always rated him at the bottom (and found him the least compelling) of the 4 - but he's a great, no doubt...and did more to elevate the Kronk mythos than any other individual (arguably including Manny Steward).

Off the poll I only favor Bodysnatcher ad SRR without hesitation. Put down Nápoles, Burley and El Feo as hard maybes.

 

I picked Robinson at 147 and maybe McCullum. McCullum-Hearns is 50-50

I just can't see a smaller slick welterweight out boxing Hearns. You have to have serios power, chin and skills to beat Holmes.

I am a fan of Napoles but how is he going to beat Hearns? Tommy can box him from long range, catch him with big rights coming in. I don't see it.

Very few welterweights would have any shot vs prime Hearns.

 

Great write up.

Honestly, only SRR has my complete confidence as the favourite, I think he has the tools to have a legitimate chance against anyone else.

I think if him and Leonard had a five fight series or something he’d actually come out on top

 

You could be right about Leonard and Hearns, @George Crowcroft. A rematch at Light-Middleweight around 1982 or 1983 would have really put our competing theories to the test, as Hearns' legs were a little stronger at the weight and Leonard was perhaps a shade more beatable there than he'd been as a Welter. I think those factors at that point might just have swung a rematch in Tommy's favour and he could have won a decision with some scary moments along the way...But of course, Leonard can never be ruled out.

Not sure I'd agree on Walker having much of a chance against him, though. A comparatively short guy, not known for defence, coming straight at him and not a particularly big hitter himself at the highest level...I think Hearns would have used his head as a speed bag. Tommy tended to go after those smaller guys who didn't have the heaviest artillery with absolute contempt and I think it'd get ugly for Walker pretty quickly. Walker no doubt a pound for pound great but head-to-head I don't like his chances here.

Pretty much agree with the rest of what you've said. Gavilan could be interesting, given his speed, work rate and chin / powers of recovery. Gavilan would have to have one of his more 'switched on' showings where he makes use of his jab and tries to break the rhythm and take Hearns in to deep water in the late rounds, because if he has one of his more lackadaisical nights where he's too brave for his own good then Hearns will drop him and close the show where Williams and Basilio didn't quite manage. Providing that's in place then there's a chance Gavilan could out-tough or outlast Hearns...But again I think it's a long shot.

 

How do folks think Tommy does vs Mayweather Jr at 147 ? IMO Floyd wouldn't take the fight. If he did, i believe Hearns would maul him.

 

I'd take Hearns, but I think Mayweather is too good to be disgraced here. I could see it playing out with some similarities to the Hearns-Benitez fight. Mayweather has his moments, frustrates Hearns at times and survives the full distance, but just can't find a way into the fight from an offensive or attacking point of view and is too wary of Hearns' power. Benitez actually had his better rounds in that fight when he was at least trying to hold the centre of the ring and get Hearns back peddling just a little (albeit as I said, still couldn't get any real attacking rhythm going) but I don't think Mayweather is going to be doing that as much.

Something like 117-111 over twelve rounds to Hearns, maybe 116-112, but I'd struggle to see Mayweather winning this one.

 

Love this but now do one on Marvin

 

I've always been mystified by the majority view that Mantequilla is hopelessly mismatched against The Hitman.

I certainly get why favoring Hearns is so tempting, at first blush. The physical dimensions and power make a compelling argument.

Nápoles' greatness is being understated, though, if you're making any welter a prohibitive fave against him. Guy was as clever and fluid a combination puncher as you'll find at the weight; like a smoother and slipperier JMM. Not to say Tommy was a 1-dimensional fighter, but Nápoles had a lot more going on. Enough to compensate for that rangy and super-effective one-two? Idk...and honestly a stoppage victory for Hearns does seem high-probability (more so due to facial carnage than getting outright knocked out cold) but I can also see a path to victory for Mantequilla, if he can navigate past the 1, never stay put for that lethal 2, and batter Tommy's ribcage to soften him up for the late rounds.

 

I do like Hearns, and totally agree that he's a h2h monster in theory, but at the highest level, I think he comes up short against the best of 147 for sure, and against Mike at 154. For it to be the reversed, you'd need to excel and find ways to win in your biggest fights, Tommy failed more often than not. In some instances in a baffling way, so baffling, I just don't think his ring IQ carries the day against the very best. In his biggest fights he almost always employed the wrong strategy. Look at SRL 1, Hearns comes out aggressive looking for the KO, and burning up needless energy trying to be the aggressive stalker. SRL, was feeling him out, looking for the counter left hook, and Hearns likely should've been caught early with how aggressive he was. In the end, the the 7th, after expending energy, taking body shots and getting hit, he's almost out on his feet. He should've been boxing from range, controlling the center of the ring, but not needlessly chasing around srl. We don't need to get into the Hagler fight, again, terrible. One of this three best wins, the Duran fight, I didn't even like that strategy. Duran was trying to make it a war and thinking he'd catch Hearns in the exchanges in close. Hearns was content to mix it up with Duran like he usual did. While it worked, he left himself exposed many times when it wasn't needed. He could've boxed Duran at range, opened him up, and then gone for it. Why come into the smaller fighters range so quickly. It worked, so kudos there, I just saw no need to turn it into a brawl with Duran.

So, I just think the best would always generally beat him, so I think his h2h ranking is slightly overrated for mine. Though here, I only pick SRR and Mike with confidence, and I'd favor Kid. So I guess that still says something about his skill