Carlos Monzon vs James Toney

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Lights Out, Dec 16, 2010.



  1. DanDaly

    DanDaly Active Member Full Member

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    Toney's weakness was pressure and I think Monzon was capable of bringing plenty of that. Toney's only chance of winning is if he pulled off his best performance then idek if that's enough.
     
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  2. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lol
     
  3. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Very few fighters in history could "Out skill" Toney, but many
    could "Out Work" him. Monzon would out work Toney.
    he wouldn't get dissuaded by Toney's counters or his
    behavior.
    Monzon probably falls behind on points early in this
    fight. But his consistency would allow him to work his
    way back into the fight by the mid rds, and sweep the later
    rds in a 15rd fight. Toney probably would win a 12
    rd fight.
     
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  4. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Close fight really. I see Monzon being vulnerable for Toney's right hand.He fights in a straight up style expecially when he backs out of exchanges. I see Toney catching him with the right hand. For those saying carlos would outwork Toney, you may check the punch stats of Mc Callum-Toney. When in shape, Toney is quite busy himself.So Monzon has the better jab but Toney would land the right hand in a consistent manner
     
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  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    It's not that Toney was more skillful and Monzon less. They were both fantastically skilled operators who were differently skilled.

    Monzon is one of the greatest range brokers the sport has seen, contstantly maintaining the border of his opponent's range while timing his work inside it. He moved very well back and laterally when attacked, spinning away from his opponent's power, which he was really good at minimizing. He was also a master of pacing his shots, a slow pushed jab, followed by a snappy jab and a quick right. He worked with change-ups and awkward rhythms.

    So, while everyone wants to point out Toney's skill level, rightly so, Carlos didn't win all those fights at the top level by accident.
     
  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'm not sure who would win. Toney has the better skills and hand speed. That much I'm sure of. Probably takes the better punch too. Whether he's active enough and in shape to win is the question.

    Could be a split decision type. Do you like the guy who lands cleaner and harder or the guys who land more often, but in general the less significant. Toney would be Monzon's best opponents and he had his hands full with Valdes.

    Slower handed guys have issues with really good counter punchers. Key match up point for Toney, and those who are really good counter guys ( Toney was a master ) have their own built in defense, because people can be a little careful throwing lots of punches at them. If not they quickly lean the truth.

    I'll say Toney on their best nights, with Monzon winning the nights where James wasn't focused or in shape.
     
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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Do you think Toney would be the best Monzon fought at 160 pounds?
     
  8. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes and no. Skill wise he probably would be the best fighter
    Monzon faced who was a natural middleweight. (Napoles
    and Griffith would be the best, but they were natural
    welters) .
     
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  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Very nice breakdown on Monzon :thumbsup:
     
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  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    So you are agreeing that Toney would be the best middleweight and due to his size most formidable opponent Monzon fought?
     
  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, of course he would..... If he's ready to fight.
     
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  12. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Maybe because I was young and in love with my Boxing in the late 60s early to mid 70s that the champs of that era Napoles, Olivares, Foster, and in particular Monzon are almost unbeatable in my eyes ( or my rose tinted glasses ) really cannot see any other fighter around 160/170 beating Carlos, poss exceptions. Hagler, Greb , is that narrow minded of me ? could be.
     
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  13. DavidBarnes

    DavidBarnes Member banned Full Member

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  14. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It is , BUT , I've seen no one the last 15yrs that
    would be a real serious threat to any of the fighters
    you named in my opinion... And I have watched
    the best fighters from this era closely.
     
  15. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    you don't think Monzon is vulnerable to toney's right hand as he fights up so straight up in the air, especially when he backs out of exchange?
    He was regulalry hit with the right hand by smaller opponents
     
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