Primo Carnera vs Ingemar Johansson

What agenda? Baer was sloppy and clowning around, whenever he connected, Carnera hit the deck. THAT IS NOT THE SIGN OF A GOOD CHIN. Stribling floored Carnera , Sharkey, whose ko% is under 24% floored him. Haynes floored him.

If you think all Carnera's fights were on the level I suggest you read the comments on his record that appear on Box rec.

Broadway Billy Duffy who had the reins of Carnera said," we steered the big guy away from punchers, until we had to fight Baer."

 

Boxrec is of course the be and end all of legit sources.

stated my opinion and reasoning and stand by it. Take it or leave it.

 

Box rec is not perfect but it has dedicated guys like Surf Bat, and Matt Donnellon researching on it. Disparage it if you choose but when they add that commissions investigated/suspended Carnera's opponents for lack of effort/ not trying ,they are not making it up , its infomation that they have unearthed. You choose to ignore it, what does that say about you?

It says to me,if anyone has an agenda here it is you .
Bohdi ---- " Carnera had a very good chin".

Carnera was an extremely well-built man who possessed great strength and was quite mobile for such a large man; However, his chin was vulnerable to the type of power punch that the top heavyweight fighters were able to deliver

cbz



"His chief liability was inability to take a punch"

Nat Fleischer "The Heavyweight Championship"

In 1933 ,the year Carnera "won " the title Fleischer refused to give a Fighter Of The Year Award:think



Despite his 71 kos in 88 wins Carnera does not feature in the Ring's Best 100 Punchers.
:think
"Carnera's manager, Lou Soresi, stole much of Carnera's money and left him nearly broke. Because of Soresi's connection to mobster [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owney_Madden"]Owney Madden[/ame], it has always been speculated across the boxing world that most of Carnera's fights were fixed. The book East Side, West Side: Tales of New York Sporting Life 1910-1960 took the rumors a step further, stating that "Most of the Italian giant's opponents were pushovers, paid to take a dive or too frightened to stand up for three minutes in a row". Jack Sharkey himself had to deny rumors about him taking a dive in his world championship fight with Carnera, swearing that he had not.
The rumors dogging Carnera started early in his career, after he arrived in the United States. Underworld figures began to exert control over boxing in New York in the period after the 1927 defeat of longtime champ [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Dempsey"]Jack Dempsey[/ame] by [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Tunney"]Gene Tunney[/ame], who retired from prizefighting after beating Dempsey in a 1928 rematch. From 1930 to 1933, the world heavyweight title was held by [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schmeling"]Max Schmeling[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Sharkey"]Jack Sharkey[/ame]. Madden's lieutenants, by manipulating Carnera's early fights, were able to manufacture a sterling record that gave him a shot at the heavyweight title.
According to boxing historian Herbert Goldman, Carnera was "very much mob controlled."[5] Carnera met his first serious heavyweight contender, [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Stribling"]Young Stribling[/ame], in 1929, and won when Stribling fouled him. In a rematch, he fouled Stribling. His 1930 fight against California club fighter Bombo Chevalier in Emeryville was considered fixed, and Carnera was banned from fighting in California.[6] His 1930 match against George Godfrey was controversial as Godfrey was disqualified in the sixth round when he was clearly getting the better of Carnera.[7]
<B>[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Magazine"]Time Magazine[/ame], in an October 5, 1931 cover story on Carnera before he won the heavyweight title, commented on his odd career.

"Since his arrival in the U. S., backed by a group of prosperous but shady entrepreneurs, Carnera's career has been less glorious than fantastic. His first opponents—Big Boy Peterson, Elzear Rioux, Cowboy Owens—were known to be incompetent but their feeble opposition to Carnera suggested that they had been bribed to lose. Suspicion concerning the Monster's abilities became almost universal when another adversary, Bombo Chevalier, stated that one of his own seconds had threatened to kill him unless he lost to Carnera. Against the huge, lazy, amiable Negro George Godfrey (249 lb.), he won on a foul. But only one of 33 U. S. opponents has defeated Monster Carnera—fat, slovenly Jimmy Maloney, whom Sharkey beat five years ago. In a return fight, at Miami last March, Carnera managed to outpoint Maloney."
​

</B>


"Primo kayoed Sebilo in two rounds. Whether the fight was on the level, only See knows, and he has never told. From the moment he took Carnera into his heart, and his training camp, Leon See became a frenzied, driven man. It did not take him long to discover Primo's weakness, which was the fact that a slight tap on the chin by a man 100 pounds lighter would send Carnera reeling. Carnera had courage. He could take blows to the body all day long, but the giant had a glass jaw and the wily Leon was quick to find that out"






Everyone else is wrong ,and you are right. That about covers it I think.

 

Baer was sloppy in that fight..and not totally focused either. Baer frustrates me to watch him sometimes. I know that if he had a real fighters head on him, he would have eclipsed his performances vs both Carnera and Schmeling..with clean knockouts..instead of the technical variety. he just didn't train with the right intent and purpose and he sure as hell didn't have the technique that he could have had....the technique that could have resulted in massacres vs Carnera, Schmeling and Braddock. Most of all, he lacked the true killer's instinct, the big good natured mush-head.

 

Bodhi, you cat-eating, Bavarian pastry. :twisted:

 

I think the Campbell, and Schaaf fights had a profound effect on Baer, he was just 21 when arrested for manslaughter after the Campbell fight. An unfulfilled talent.

 

B. E .you are something else!!!

 

I like Ingo by TKO ... Carnera was hard to miss with a right hand and that was Ingo's bread and butter. IN addition, Carnera had little power to rattle Ingo's shaky chin ... however, as always, the ref and the ring size could play a part if Primo is allowed to hug and clinch and jab it could go his way via decision. I still like Ingo.

 

I like Ingo also because of that big right and Carnera's shaky chin.

 

I'm calling a quicker and neater ko for Ingo than Baer achieved only because though Baer had more torque on his right than Ingo, the Swede's right was straighter and more economically delivered, much like Schmeling's. Not that Baer couldn't have for once come into a fight with his head screwed on tight and gotten Carnera out of there in the first. He could have had he wanted to.

 

CARNERA KO 6

 

Ingo lands his Bingo, like he did that night against Floyd Patterson in 1959, Johannson by TKO 5.