I will submit my lists soon, but feel a bit embarrassed that @BitPlayerVesti is not (stating his lack of knowledge as a reason). This guy knows more than most, I feel... and certainly x100 more than me. I learn a lot from his posts. Anyway, I'll post soon.
FLY 1. Jimmy Wilde 2. Miguel Canto 3. Frankie Genaro 4. Pascual Perez 5. Midget Wolgast 6. Pancho Villa 7. Benny Lynch 8. Fidel LaBarba 9. Pone Kingpetch 10. Roman Gonzalez 11. Peter Kane 12. Masao Ohba 13. Chartchai Chionoi 14. Horacio Accavallo 15. Jimmy Barry BANTAM 1. Eider Jofre 2. Ruben Olivares 3. Terry McGovern 4. Manuel Ortiz 5. Pete Herman 6. Al Brown 7. Fighting Harada 8. Kid Williams 9. Carlos Zarate 10. Bud Taylor 11. Joe Lynch 12. George Dixon 13. Lionel Rose 14. Pal Moore 15. Naoya Inoue FEATHER 1. Willie Pep 2. Sandy Saddler 3. Henry Armstrong 4. Salvador Sanchez 5. Alexis Arguello 6. Vicente Saldivar 7. Abe Attell 8. George Dixon 9. Vasyl Lomachenko 10. Johnny Kilbane 11. Terry McGovern 12. Freddy Miller 13. Azumah Nelson 14. Manny Pacquiao 15. Kid Chocolate LIGHT 1. Joe Gans 2. Benny Leonard 3. Roberto Duran 4. Henry Armstrong 5. Pernell Whitaker 6. Packey McFarland 7. Ike Williams 8. Carlos Ortiz 9. Alexis Arguello 10. Julio Cesar Chavez 11. Floyd Mayweather Jr 12. Tony Canzoneri 13. Barney Ross 14. Freddie Welsh 15. Kid Lavigne WELTER 1. Ray Robinson 2. Ray Leonard 3. Charley Burley 4. Thomas Hearns 5. Jose Napoles 6. Jack Britton 7. Kid Gavilan 8. Emile Griffith 9. Mickey Walker 10. Henry Armstrong 11. Roberto Duran 12. Floyd Mayweather Jr 13. Barney Ross 14. Barbados Joe Walcott 15. Ted Kid Lewis MIDDLE 1. Harry Greb 2. Carlos Monzon 3. Ray Robinson 4. Marvin Hagler 5. Bob Fitzsimmons 6. Sam Langford 7. Stanley Ketchel 8. Mickey Walker 9. Charley Burley 10. Freddie Steele 11. Jake LaMotta 12. Bernard Hopkins 13. Roy Jones Jr 14. Gennady Golovkin 15. Dick Tiger LIGHT HEAVY 1. Ezzard Charles 2. Sam Langford 3. Archie Moore 4. Bob Fitzsimmons 5. Harry Greb 6. Gene Tunney 7. Tommy Loughran 8. Billy Conn 9. Michael Spinks 10. Bob Foster 11. John Henry Lewis 12. Roy Jones Jr 13. Jimmy Bivins 14. Matthew Saad Muhammad 15. Joe Choynski HEAVY 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. Sonny Liston 4. George Foreman 5. Larry Holmes 6. Lennox Lewis 7. Evander Holyfield 8. Mike Tyson 9. Joe Frazier 10. Riddick Bowe 11. Wladimir Klitschko 12. Vitali Klitschko 13. Jack Johnson 14. Jack Dempsey 15. Rocky Marciano ALL TIME BEST 1. Ray Robinson 2. Sam Langford 3. Harry Greb 4. Henry Armstrong 5. Muhammad Ali 6. Ezzard Charles 7. Bob Fitzsimmons 8. Roberto Duran 9. Joe Gans 10. Bennie Leonard 11. Willie Pep 12. Joe Louis 13. Ray Leonard 14. Mickey Walker 15. Archie Moore 16. Sandy Saddler 17. Jimmy Wilde 18. Charley Burley 19. Floyd Mayweather Jr 20. Barney Ross 21. Manny Pacquiao 22. Eider Jofre 23. Roy Jones Jr 24. Pernell Whitaker 25. Carlos Monzon
I will keep updating every couple of days till complete (before the deadline)...but you have made me hate this exercise lol I wanted to cram 10 names into the final 5 spots at LHW and hate that I have Maxie, Lloyd Marshall and Galindez missing the cut...trying to cram them in but the math won’t work.
All of his biggest victories have question marks around them. Langford wasn't a HW yet Jeanette and McVey were novices Burns - no qualms there Fitzsimmons was shot Jeffries was beyond shot Hart - the decision will forever be debated Ketchel was a MW and it was probably a fix Flynn and Kaufman - legit victories but not the most deserving of contenders Gardner was a LHW Martin and Ferguson I've never looked into in a lot of detail. Plus there's the issue that as champ he never faced McVey, Jeanette or Langford and they actually had to make a coloured HW championship. Don't get me wrong, I think his greatness is beyond doubt and the asterixs never really bother me. But there's a few asterixs there, probably more than Mayweather and I see his resume being torn apart day after day.
@janitor ran a decent analysis of comparisons to how some of his victories could be perceived in a more modern light For example; Jeffries - a former heavyweight champion coming back from a long lay off, comparable to Vitali Klitschko when he fought Sam Peter Bob Fitz - P4P great that won the middleweight title and heavyweight title, who then dropped down to light heavyweight to win the title, comparable to a past prime Roy Jones And so on and so forth, I’ve tried to find the post but to no avail sadly I do rate Johnson higher than most, I think there’s a bit of personal bias, because he was the first fighter I really researched to some degree in terms of a historical sense that got me into the old timers.
Listen, lots and lots of greats have names on their resume with an asterisk attached to it. It's just that modern fighters get more criticism for these same asterisks. Emile Griffith might be one of the few greats who consistently fought the bets version of a fighter he could.
Yeah your not wrong, what’s weird about modern fighters is one or two loses seem huge thing when rating in an all time great sense, yet the very best 10/15/20 times, but that’s why it’s tough to compare eras.
I literally saw someone today saying victories over Cotto meant nothing as Margarito knocked him out. If a fighter isn't umbeaten some fans think they're shot.
Damn! That win blossomed a little bit, it’s a shame Cotto didn’t meet a fully fit Sergio Martinez. Hypothetically if Cotto took a close decision that win for Mayweather would have a lot more Weight
I totally understand that. I know this exercise is a very tall ask, and quite a daunting task. But, should you change your mind, you have plenty of time to participate. No pressure! I totally understand that with all of the vast collective expertise on the Classic Forum, that not everyone is an expert on every great boxer who ever laced them up. But, by and large, the Classic Regulars are knowledgeable and well informed, where even educated guesses filling in gaps is far better than what I've experienced in other online boxing forums. After all my time here, I still frequently read some absolutely fascinating posts and discussions, where the expertise and insight exhibited here by so many great posters leaves me in awe, and you're certainly no exception among those who often share impeccable insight, knowledge, and expertise. Again, no pressure. But should you change your mind, your contributions would be welcome.
Sorry! I had briefly considered Top 25 for every weight class, but when I thought about trying to do that myself - that seemed (and still seems) more difficult in my mind.
