Hagler also avenged all his losses and draws bar Leonard, his last fight. I'm sure you could also go through Monzon's losses and draws and say Hagler would have beaten them.
Same thing with Carlos, he would have beaten all of Hagler's opponents, he was smart to retire when he did and with the title, unlike Hagler that was a poor sport losing to a fighter that did not fight very often, he cried about the loss, pure greed. Your opinion is your own and my opinion is my own. Also I might add, did you see any of Monzons opponents that defeated him fight, and which ones?
Nope. How many of them did you see? That's the other issue when evaluating Monzon. Basically 80% of his fights were in Argentina against men most of us have probably never heard of, so his career can't be scrutinised to anything like the same degree as Hagler (or most fighters). Whereas Hagler can be picked apart for losing to Monroe or drawing with Antuofermo, there's no footage or reports of the vast majority of Monzon's fights, so mainly they just get ignored or written off. Monzon might not look so good either if we could watch him getting a draw against someone who barely had a winning record, or a report of him getting a gift decision.
You and I can agree to disagree, Hagler is your favorite and Monzon is mine, I think we can agree that we made valid points.
In my defense ! I did say in some light, look I bow to no one in my admiration for Monzon ( he 3rd to Greb then Hagler in my MW list ) when he beat Nino I was 17, so I followed all his victory's with a keen eye, couldn't wait to get my Boxing News to see how he fared, so yes I am a BIG fan of him, that said I still feel that his DNA of fighting was yes, a little robotic. Trying to break that style down, I would say he had a range finding jab, that would then set the opponent up for a thunderous right, ok he did display a uppercut of sorts, but no body punching, no real neat footwork, no fast combos, to speak off, so sorry as effective as his style was (very, as we know ) I still think there is minor case to say what I said . Am preparing for avalanche of rebuttals, to the ramparts...
I never said he got a gift decision. Would you agree that any of his fights in Argentina might, potentially, have been a gift decision? That was my point. We simply don't know any details of the vast majority of his fights.
We know this much and a little more, Carlos gets criticized for a lot of his draws but South American scoring is different and you have to win by a larger margin than a point or it is ruled a draw
You implied the real possibility of it with this remark. "Monzon might not look so good either if we could watch him getting a draw against someone who barely had a winning record, or a report of him getting a gift decision". Hagler had over 20 early fights on his home turf how many of them have you seen? And is it possible one or two of them might have been gifts? I think it very reasonable for posters to pick either Monzon or Hagler as the better man.What isn't reasonable,imo is to make insinuations about Monzon's early fights without offering any evidence that he was in anyway favoured. It's a fact that Argentina had a propensity to award draws in fights in which no overwhelming superiority had been established by either fighter.
Correct .. I put some time into it and got some answers .. We went into it in detail a couple of years ago in a thread
I said he "might not look so good, if ... there was a report of him getting a gift." I never said anywhere that he actually received a gift. Do you agree there might have been a gift somewhere in Monzon's career? Given he was a popular fighter and had about 70 or 80 fights whose circumstances are pretty much unknown to us, I'd say it's a possibility. In answer to your question, of course it's possible Hagler might have got a gift early in his career.
Monzon fought in his hometown 14 times , 11 of them were stoppage victories,1 was a no dec, 2 decision wins. Three men beat Monzon,and he subsequently beat them in return. Of the 18 dec wins or draws Monzon had in Argentina before he faced the Americans etc , 14 were Argentinians and about half were fighting in their home town of Buenos Ares. Monzon had 4 fights in Brazil a loss and a win against Brazilian Cambeiro. 2 draws there with Brazilian Severino ,and he later ko'd Severino in Argentina. Where is the evidence that Monzon ever benefited from "home cooking"?
