Best five wins thread. Lineal / Ring Magazine heavyweight champions.

Sonny Liston’s 5 best wins

1 Patterson - Not much of a debate on this
2 Folley - He and Machen are pretty equal. I think Foley beating Machen right before they each faced Liston gives him the upper hand
3 Machen - I see nothing wrong putting him at 2
4 Williams - You can make a case for moving him up, I just don’t think his record is as deep as Folley and Machens
5 Valdez - At the end of his career but was still beating fringe contenders fairly consistent at the time.

I think Harris has a good case for the 5 spot and to a lesser degree DeJohn. His top 4 wins seem like a lock.

 

I hate to say that, but the same can be said about Jeffries resume. I see double standards here regarding size.

I view Liston's top wins as very good, but not among very best here. I prefer Louis and Schmeling lists and Jeffries+Rocky had comparable one.

 

Liston beat Valdes and Williams. He beat Machen and Folley. He beat Patterson. That's variety of sizes and styles.

 

And they are bigger than Fitz, Sharkey and Corbett if that matters, I don't know why.

 

The obsession with size on this forum is mind boggling. If big men are so much better they should have been dominating at the time. The smaller men were faster and more skilled that’s why they won. Marciano and Liston and Jeffries beat basically everyone put in front of them big or small only thing was the best of their times were smaller men (except in Marcianos case where he was just as small).

 

Liston wasn’t very big though at 6 ft. The reach of a 6”7 Man but still. That being said sub 200 fighters would remain competitive in the 60s and 70s. Steroids allowed for bigger men to be..more complete maybe?

 

Sonny Liston
1-----Floyd Patterson
2-----Eddie Machen
3-----Zora Folley
4-----Cleveland Williams
5-----Nino Valdes

Not making the cut--Roy Harris, really in a tie with Valdes. I went with Nino because he had a punch. Harris actually was fighting better and winning more consistently. Mike DeJohn--to me another Williams or Valdes type, only not as good.

Liston has a lot of depth, and beat his opponents really impressively on the way up. But Archie Moore, Harold Johnson, and Bob Satterfield are 6-0 against Valdes, Williams, and Machen. Folley was KO'd by Lavorante and Jones, who in turn were beaten by Moore and Johnson.

So as a top five list, I don't think this is one of the better ones.

 

It doesn't matter, beating Fitzsimmons is much more impressive than beating Williams. I just point out inconsistencies in Mendoza's criteria.

 

Liston was massive indeed. His built was unusual. I could see him weighing 220-230 lbs if he were fighting today

 

We almost ready for Ali

 

My list:

1. Floyd Patterson
2. Zora Folley
3. Eddie Machen
4. Roy Harris
5. Cleveland Williams