What If...Burns had drawn the color line

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by apollack, Jul 25, 2020.



  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Vitriol!lol
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    JUST LOL!
     
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  3. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It probably wouldn't have been much different to Johnson's reign as he essentially drew the colour line as well and shut out the best black challengers, leaving the public with defences against the likes of Flynn, Moran and Kaufmann. I'm sure at some point someone would have been tempted by MacIntosh's $30,000.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    OWNAGE. :yaay:yaay:yaay

    Johnson never faced anything close to a prime Langford. Being that he was about even with a very green Jeannette the end of they series, you have to give Jeanette a real chance to beat him as well.

    Given that Johnson was out boxed in his prime by Jack O'brien according to some primary sources, TKO'd in a 4 round exhibition match by GunBoat Smith in his prime, and floored and by his own admission hurt by Ketchel, I'd say Langford and Jeannette who were better heavyweights than the three I mentioned sure could have been the next champion had Johnson not drawn the color line.

    Johnson did face one black opponent as champion and he was lucky to escape with a draw. You claimed to have the purse amount on Jack vs Jim battling Johnson. Well, where is it?
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Not Corbett. Jim wrote an opinion piece predicting black fighters to become the dominant force in the division.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That seems to have stood the test of time!
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Stop ****ing up Adam's interesting thread you [ ], we don't want anymore hate posts do you get that?
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson agreed to fight McVey and Langford in Australia for McIntosh the defences were pulled because of public opinion.
    Johnson twice agreed to defend against Jeannette in NY for the McMahon brothers ,the NYAC refused to allow both attempts to promote the fight.
    Johnson fought the White hopes because that's whom the white public wanted him to defend against, otherwise there would not have been a White Hope Era! They had no interest in his defending against fellow black challengers because;
    The status quo would have remained the same whichever man won, ie a Black man would still be champion!
    The leading US promoters Coffroth,Curley, and Rickard had no desire to promote a black v black heavyweight title fight because it would not draw.

    The OP of this thread has written 2 first class volumes of biography on Johnson
    In The Ring With Jack Johnson. The Rise . In The Ring With Jack Johnson. The Reign ,by Adam Pollack.
    Highly recommended!
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I'll throw a name into the mix Mike Schreck who beat Burns in 1903?
     
  10. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Boxing fans can be tribal but I find it hard to believe loads of people wouldn't want a real trade fight between no 1 and no 2 in the division.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If these fights would have drawn big crowds why did none of the big promoters in the US show an interest in promoting those matches?
    How many black fans were in a position financially to pay to see their fellow blacks fight? There is a photo of a Johnson title defence,I think is v Jeffries ,in the crowd is one black face.
    The National Sporting Club in the Uk offered Johnson a pittance to fight Langford.
    Yet Sam earned his biggest purse fighting Iron Hague in London and Hague wasn't in his class?
    The difference was Hague was White!
    White America wanted the status quo restored, with a White Heavyweight Champion ruling the division. That's why Johnson was able to command good purses fighting average white challengers for which he was seldom in top shape.
    If white challengers v black champions did not outdraw black v black contests the White Hope era would not have gotten off the ground would it?

    Mike Jacobs believed this held true into the 40's and was reluctant to put black challengers in with Louis.Jacobs had no racial prejudice, his only colour interest was green!
     
  12. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In this scenario I see Jeffries coming back and maybe he is the first to regain the title.

    But I think Burns probably beats him and is slightly too big for Ketchel. So maybe a Flynn, O'Brien or Gunboat Smith take the title.
     
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  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Burns had proved he was Flynn and O Brien's master, Smith was a bit later.
     
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  14. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But who else is there for Burns to fight, for good money in this scenario?

    As you mention Smith would be later on than 1908/09 as a potential opponent, so that does lead to reheats, Jeffries and Ketchel. All on their day could beat him, with O'Brien and Flynn having the best chance.


    Burns went into semi retirement after losing, so we got no real way of understanding how he would have fought in 1909+ if he was still the champ.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He was younger than Johnson and apart from that fight hadn't taken any beatings There wouldnt have been a crusade for Jeffries to come back as Burns was white, so it would probably be Ketchel for a decent purse.