Why do some people say Ali was at his 1970s best in the Fight of the Century?

I've often read people saying that Ali was actually at his peak 70s form in his first fight against Frazier.

I don't quite understand this logic.

He hadn't been back from exile for that long, and did seem to take more than his fair share of hits. It was the only fight where Frazier knocked him down.

He didn't dance during the fight, which he actually still did a lot in the early to mid 70s. Despite his excessive holding in Frazier II, dancing clearly would have been a useful strategy in FOTC.

No doubt, he was still better than most boxers who ever lived that fight, but on what basis was this a 1970s Ali at his best?

 

Possibly to make it a justifiably better win for Joe Frazier

 

Ali didn't know he needed to dance until the second fight.

 

He was flat footed in the Bonavena fight too. I think he was out of sorts from the lay-off

 

Agreed. But the 70s was when Ali started to have a lot of tough fights. In the 60s Ali was in such good shape that he could easily jab jab jab and keep moving for 15 rounds. In the early 70s, though in great shape, still very fast, and very mobile, Ali knew he wasn't as athletic as he was a few years earlier, and since he had never really had a serious challenge in his career in the 60s, he had no way of knowing just how tough it would really be to fight Frazier and Bonavena flat-footed.

 

It's one of those cases a bit like Mayweather, Pacquiao and Hopkins where he adjusted his style and his improvements in technique where enough to compensate any dip in athleticism.

But the reason people say this is because at this point he'd just stopped Quarry and Bonavena, had yet to be beaten and fought in an amazing war against Frazier.

Was this Ali as good as the Ali who beat Liston, or the Ali who beat Foreman, who knows. I don't really like comparing versions of a fighter.

Frazier beat a great champion, Foreman beat a great champion. Ali beat a great champion.

 

For sure, most of Ali's greatest fights were in the 70s, but his first fight against Liston was as big a challenge as any.

 

I mean the Ali who beat Liston is clearly better. There's nothing 1964 Ali couldn't do that the FOTC Ali could. You can even see him sit on his punches against Liston when he's not dancing.

 

You say this, but in 1964 Ali was fresh from being dropped against Cooper, outboxed for large stretches against Jones and was involved in one of the worst dives in HW history.

FWIW Frazier beats Ali prime for prime.

As I said, Ali made improvements to his technique to compensate his dip in athleticism. Many boxers have done the same in particular Floyd, Pacquiao, Hopkins, Wladimir.

Frazier was just wrong for Ali.

 

Well Ali was also dropped in FOTC. The dive was in the 2nd Liston fight in '65, not '64. I think outboxing Sonny Liston and barely getting hit kind of makes up for getting knocked down by Henry Cooper. '64 Ali may not have been him at his peak, but are you saying he was technically sharper in FOTC?

I'm not sure about prime for prime. From Frazier II, I would give the edge to a prime Ali, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

that's true, but Ali never got into any slugfests or come-from-behind fights like he did in the 70s. Ali did get floored by Banks and Cooper, and Liston gave Ali two tough rounds, but Jones was really the only guy who forced Ali into a firefight

 

I've gathered that.

 

It is universally excepted that the fight in 66 ( I think ) against Cleveland " Big Cat " Williams was far and away, the standout fight of his career, he had by then filled out to be a very muscular, and fit looking specimen, his punches were razor sharp, as if guided by missile heads, they came in salvos, all hard and damaging , The Cat literally never knew what hit him, I find it hard to believe that any of the greats, you know who I mean, could have beaten this version of Ali.

 

Big difference between being dropped by Frazier and Cooper though.

64, 65, who cares.

Out boxing Liston was great, obviously, Ali is a great great fighter.

What I'm saying is that Ali, like some others, found a way to make technical adjustments to compensate for a dip in athleticism and thus allow him to stay at the top of his game.