Sonny Liston, 1962, across the ring from him is Jerry Quarry, 1968, 15 rounds.

You compared eras, 60s and 80s vs 20s/30s. So that means we get the best version of Holmes from the 80's, not the oldest one.
And Holmes was by no means old, since he fought 2 more time for the world title in the 90s, when he was in his 40s, lasting the distance both times, against a prime Holyfield, and against McCall, when he was close to winning it.

The same "scared LHW" beat an undefeated ATG in Holmes twice.

Still better than almost all the guys you mentioned.

So that means his prime was in the 70's ?!?
Troll, stop embarrassing yourself. 65-67 was the best version of Ali and none of the guys you mentioned beats that version of Ali.

So when I say Liston was old when he faced Ali, you disagree and say he was only 30. Now when it suits your purpose, he's suddenly old. Which one is it, troll ?
Again, we are talking about the entire 60s, so we take the best version of Liston from the 60s, like a 60-61 Liston. Although he was probably in his mid 30's in 60-61, he was more than good enough to destroy all those you mentioned.

Again, just like with Liston,Patterson was all of a sudden old. Keep em coming troll.

Greb is a ****ing MW, he stands no chance whatsoever against any version of Liston. One clean punch and Liston takes his head off.
And Patterson is far more skilled than those 3.

 

Eh? I never said that. I just said George avoided him, which I only know because George said he did.

 

Gil pleaded with a fight with Foreman after the Mac Foster fight. It was live on TV.

 

Yes, I am which you obviously don't like!

 

I don't like your version of the 'facts'.

 

I compared eras 20/30s with 80s and after 1983 Holmes started to decline,in 1985 he was shoot and after layoff he was nothing!
Since you said 30s what about Joe Louis?Max Baer?
Holmes was not old but Liston was or you are so dumb?At 39 years he was old!His prime was 1978-1984 and that's it!He fought two more times but lost every time!He overweight Holyfield for about 30 poubds but Holyfield still beat him!
McCall?A punching bag who was cocaine addict and cried?Even Douglas and Bruno who were nothing beat him!
Holmes was never close to winning!McCall won 8 rounds clearly and Holmes won just 4!That is not even close!

That same undefeated ATG was past gis best after 1984 and second time Holmes won clearly!And what abiut that Holmes even didn't take fights seriously and on only two weeks notice?That was only Spinks winld Holmes and washed Cooney....he str

uggled against Qawi and ducked Holyfield clearly!
Against Tyson he was washed with disease in his legs!

Hahahah...dumb comment!
Two coke addict better than HOFamers Schmelling,Greb,Langford...yeah better in your dreams!
They were not even good contenders but to compare them with HOFamers shows you have some issues!

I didn't say Liston was old in 60s but in late 60s when he was defeated by Martin when he was 37 years old!
Yes, I said Liston was 32 years old when he faced Ali which is not that old!
It does not suit anything troll I didn't said he was old for Ali fight again stupid bum but he was old in late 60s after Martin fight and outshaped!
I talked about entire 60s but after 1965 Liston was not longer that good!
He was not in his 30s in late 50s since he was born in 1932 troll which I proved!
Even Liston and his family said that he eas born in 1932!
He was good but not enough to beat Tunney,Dempsey and Greb!

That means that he was in his prime in early 70s!
Atupid troll only you embarassed yourself here!
In 60 Ali was maybe faster but how many good fighters he fought?How many times was he knocked down?His chin improved after layoff!
Only stupid troll is you!Ali prime was 1967 and until Foreman fight!That was Ali true prime!Hos chin was better and had better stamina and punching power!
That early Ali could be well beaten by Tunney and Dempsey!

Liston and Patterson were considered old after 1965 and past their primes!Patterson was fighter of 50s and very early 60s while Liston was fighter of late 50s early 60s!
Keep posting dumb stuff troll!
Every fighter born in 1930s was past his best after 1965....Liston,Patterson,Cleveland...you are very stupid!

Gerb is MW who beat many HWs how about that?
He would stand very good chances against Liston!
He was faster,more durable,hearted and more well rounded than Liston!He would take Lustin especially Liston after Clay fights!
Liston couldn't see Greb punches and Greb is better than Patterson!Greb was SMW/LHW like Machen and he is much better than Machen!
One clean punch?No one ever knocked Greb but how would Liston?Greb had iron chin and if he would be stopped it would be due to cuts and his blind eye!
Patterson not only is not skilled as Dempsey,Langford and Greb but is much less durable and weaker puncher than those 3!

 

Yes, if you are comparing eras, we take the best version of Holmes from the 80s, not the weakest one.
And as I already mentioned, the "nothing" Holmes fought 2 more time for the world title in the 90s.

Neither stands a chance against a 65-67 Ali, a 60 Liston, a 80's Tyson, a early 80s Holmes, etc.

And he was 10 years older, why don't you mention that ?

Being a HOF does not make them better. They were HOF for what they did in their era. You can be a HOF in one era and at the same time be **** compared to an average guy from another era. For example, Tunney was an ATG and great in his era, yet he'd get polaxed by someone like Haye.

Again, we take the best version of Liston from the 60's, not the worst one.

Liston was most likely around 45-50 years old by that point.

The Census shows him as being at least 2 years older.

You didn't prove anything you IDIOT.
The Census clearly shows he was OLDER THAN STATED.

What Liston and his family say is irrelevant, they were illiterate. Liston never knew his exact birthdate and he simply chose/used one that would benefit his boxing career.

Liston destroys all of them.

That speed makes all the diference.

This is the only thing we can agree upon.

I wonder how many on this forum will agree with you

I will grant you the "better chin and punching power", but no way did he have better stamina.

So in your opinion a 65-66 Ali could be beaten by those guys, right ?

Bu they were still good enough around 60, 61, 62, so we can use that version of them.

He beat HWs from his era, who were considerably smaller and not as good as the top ones in the 60s and 80s

He stands none.

Faster, yes. More durable, hell no. He doesn't even beat a late 60s Liston, let alone a early 60s Liston. That Liston would literally kill Greb.

In the p4p all time ratings, he ranks higher in terms of greatness.
But at HW, not in a million years.

Cause he hits way ****ing hard than anyone Greb ever faced.

Yea right. I'm sure the likes of Liston and Tyson wouldn't even dream of KOing Greb.
Given how dumb you are, you're probably going to tell me Tyson will quit against the allmighty Greb.

A weaker puncher than Dempsey and Langford ? That's possible.
But a weaker puncher than Greb ? Definitely not. Greb was not known as being a big puncher and his records attests to that.

 

Charlie, I dont know whom you are addressing here because he is obviously on my banned list. Cheers Sir

 

Maybe you did not but other posters did

 

There is no maybe. I didn't. Address your comments to said "Other posters".

 

They were insinuating that quarry could beat Foreman because George did not face him and then you posted the same crap "he avoided quarry " or similar.
In few words..
you were in the wrong place saying the wrong comment at the wrong time

 

George is on record as saying he avoided Jerry. Fact. That was all I said. Look back at my post.
By the way, regarding time and place, this is a forum. If you don't understand what a forum is, look it up.

 

Ouch. Poor Jerry. Maybe 3 rounds.

 

Liston, rated no 3 beats up Willie Besmanoff,tough man that German.

This content is protected

 

I compared eras and take best of Holmes but the best Holmes was not in all 80s!
Holmes was good until early 80s which is not 80s!After that he was nothing!
The nothing Holmes fought two times?And lost both times!He was beaten by Holyfiled and punchbag McCall!He was even beaten by bum Nelsen!
The old Holmes was nothing again!

They stand a very good chances!
Joe Louis would beat all of them!
He would beat Holmes by UD because Larry is not mobile!
He would beat Liston because like Larry Liston isn't mobile and he would be the perfect target for Louis!Louis would TKOd him late with his combos!
Louis against Ali is 50/50 since that Ali chin was not good and Louis would be best oponent he ever faced!Even Doug Jones almost beat him and Joe Louis is twice better than Doug Jones!
Baer could knock Liston and 90 percent of them cold with his right hand and iron chin!
Louis would kill Tyson with those combos because style make fights and Louis would find Tyson with that uppercut much better than Holyfield did!

Not 10 but few years older!And you mentioned Holmes fights after 80s not me!But again Holmes lost both fights and would always lost!

Yes being a HOFamer makes them better!That is why someone is in HOF and someone is not!HOFamer not only measured their number of fights but wins against quality oponents!They were HOFamers and would do in any era very good!That is why Foreman is HOFamers and Tua is just contender!HOFamer in any era is better than contender in any era especialy in weak era like 80s!Average guy is average because he is and HOFamer is that because he was!Tunney was LHW not HW but for example he would beat Haye and outbox him!He was better than old Klitchko also!Hofamer like Liston and Marciano would always beat Tua or Tucker!

Again we take the best Liston but Liston was never the best due to his lifestyle!Liston was bad and weak after 1965!Even the best version of Liston is not something that much!Again 60s was weak era!We take fighter as he was in 60s he was both good and bad in that era which depends on his lifestyle and motivation!

Lie!He was 37 years old against Martin and Wepner not 50 years old as you stated because he did not aged that much as you stated!

Not they did not!They were wrong once and only that census listed him as 2 years older dumb man!That was only one census in 1952 when they Listed him as 22 years old but at the same years he was twice listed as 20 years old with his mother which is correct date and number!

I prove everything arsehole and I showed you are dumb as drum!I proved how old he really was!
Census clearly only once showed his incorrect date while he showed twice more times his correct date which was 1932!They only once listed him wrong because prisoner with same name!He was then twice listed as 1932 born in!

It is not irrelevant!They were illiterate but Sonny mother and father were not!She even wrote his birthdate on one tree!Tree was cut but year of born was left and it said 1932!
Liston knew his birthyear but not his exact date of birth!When interviewer asked Sonny is that true his date he replied:Are you calling my momma a liar?
Many Sonny siblings and his mother also stated his birthyear was 1932!It was just a rumor because Sonny Charles Liston was pre war boxer with same name as Sonny but was not any part of Sonny family!They were just confused and it was a lie spread by mob to indimidate his oponents!

Nope!Tunney would outbox him ala Clay,Martin and Machen!
Dempsey would maul him and stop him inside of 5 rounds!

Nope it did not because Ali was weak puncher and alot lighter!His stamina was also weaker than first carrer!

Nope it is not!Ali clearly had better chin in his second carer!
He was knocked by Banks,Doug Jones,Cooper....in his second prime he was dropped only once by Frazier in 15th round!

Yes he did!In his prime he went 15 rounds only once with Chuvalo and with Terrell!
In his second carer he went 15 rounders with Frazier and Norton twice,with Bonavena,Lyle.....

He could because they were better than Banks and Cooper!
Same Ali was almost beaten by Doug Jones and Doug is not Demspey or Tunney!

They were good but nothing that special!Again Patterson was weak chin MW and Liston was just big bully exposed several times!
Even that early version of them could be beaten very easy by some good punchers!

He beat many HW of his era who were smaller but more skilled and well more rounded than big bums!Being big does not mean anything!They were many big bums in 80s but they were beaten by smaller guys like Holyfield and Tyson!Being big is not anything that matters here but resume and record is!
HWs from 70s were smaller than todays but they would beat every big bum today!

Yes he did!He stands very good chance due to his iron chin and his resume also skills!

Yes he was more durable!He would beat late Liston very easy and wore him down!
Liston would never kill Greb!Greb had more than 100 fights and was never knocked cold by any HW!
Greb was more durable than Liston because he faced more HOFamers and had much more fights and was never stopped in 1st round by light punching man!

Even at HW he is ranked much better than Patterson!He ranks in any term highter than Patterson!
Greb beat many good names but how good Names Patterson beat?Greb was more durable and at HW he did better and beat many of them while Patterson failed against everyone!

Nope he did not!He hit as hard as Dempsey but not that fast!And Greb is lighting fast!
And Greb used to beat him pretty bad in sparing!

Again only dumb men here is you!Liston and Tyson could only dream knocking people like Greb or Chuvalo guys with chin of an iron!
Tyson struggled against LHWs and old man and his stamina is bad so his knocking Greb is not that possible as for Liston!
Tyson quit against Holyfield and bum McBRIDE and they were not good as Greb was in his prime!
That almighty Greb has better record than Tyson and Liston combined!

That is not possible but true!His KO against good guys was weak!He only knocked chin chin fat Ingemar and MW McNeeley!
He was weaker puncher than Greb!Greb was not known as that much puncher but was better than Patterson!
His record attest that he fought twice more than Patterson against better people which shows he was better puncher!
Greb was stronger,harder puncher and better chin than Patterson due to his record case closed!
And who was better top guy either of them beat?