the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

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Supposed to be a real good performance and an awesome two-way technical fight, but I've never seen this before. The Kalambay thread had me thinking I probably need to watch him some more.

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10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (39/37)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10 (78/74)
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10 (

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This was a great performance. One of the best I've ever seen around the weight, in fact. The whole package Kalambay brought was immense. The jab, foot-work, head-movement, counters etc; was just sublime. I'm really impressed. Kalamazoo actually had McCallum going and hurt in the fourth, something I wasn't expecting.

Wow - what a jab, eh? Kalamazoo just popped it out so smoothly and so effectively that it was so natural. He doubled up on it, stiffened it, shortened it and displayed all of the range manipulating qualities you'd find in a great jab. He also didn't just jab with it, he feinted well and used it effectively to occupy the space.

I loved his counters, too. So slick when he squared up. He'd move off, stick his jab then wait for McCallum to come in before squaring his feet and shifting his weight into a short shot either to the body or over the top of McCallum's incoming punch. My favourite was the right uppercut counter to McCallum's looping cross.

His defence was marvelous. He turned with everything he actually got hit by, and let's be honest, not much actually got past his blocking and reflexes. I think a big part of his defence was that he was the one in control of the range, and that let him get out of the way of punches before they were a threat. Very underrated aspect of defence. Another impressive thing is that there was little clinching, Kalambay seemed to like fighting clean.

McCallum was what you'd expect. A consummate professional with immaculate fundamentals and good physical attributes. I'll probably try and go in a bit more depth on what I saw in him in the rematch.

I'll probably watch the next fight later tonight or tomorrow morning. I wish I'd visited these a bit earlier.

 

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10 : 9*
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 9 (39/37)
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10 (77/75)
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (

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I really liked this one. Lots of high-level technique and lots of exchanging.

McCallum really was special, although I do tend to think he's a bit overrated. His counter hooks were splendid, his defence was subtle but effective and he had an iron chin anyway. He cut the ring off well and seemed to always put himself in position to land his body shots, and he worked behind a very good jab. I especially liked his straight right to the ribs. He'd set his lead-foot right next to Kalambay's, and whenever Kalambay jabbed, he'd loop that right on the outside and land under the elbow. We all know about his left hook downstairs, and how he picked the most effective spot to target and get that exact spot every time. He had very complete punch selection too. He could mix his combinations up, throw uppercuts, hooks, lead rights and had a very good jab.

I was thinking about it during Kalambay's excellent round in the 7th, he's probably the best technical middleweight I've ever seen, from Italy. Yeah, I'd say he's a little better, technically, than Giardello.

 

Those are good fights, aren't they? Kalambay wasn't played up much here in the States, but he should have been. Tremendous talent, incredibly smooth.

Out of curiosity, why would you say McCallum was overrated?

 

Cracking fights, for sure. And they're the type of fights which you can pick up something new every time you watch, so it would seem.

Little things, I've seen him called a top 50 ATG. I disagree with that heavily, I actually think he's lucky to be top 100. Thinking he beat Toney is another opinion I see of him which I just can't fathom. Then on the board I see him picked over guys like Hearns, Hopkins, Rodriguez, Griffith and at some points even Hagler, and the weirdest of all was a prime Monzon. And of course you have the myth that the fav four all ducked him. I just seem to have a lower opinion of him than most.

 

Fair enough. I can't place him in the top 100 either, and certainly don't see him beating a physical beast like Hagler or a big, rangy dominant force like Monzon either. I could see him getting to Rodriguez though, not quite as high on him as many are. Haven't seen a ton though.

 

Shane Mosley-Oscar De la Hoya I
Round 1: 9-10 Mosley
Round 2: 9-10 Mosley
Round 3: 10-10 even
Round 4: 10-9 De la Hoya
Round 5: 10-9 De la Hoya
Round 6: 10-9 De la Hoya
Round 7: 10-9 De la Hoya
Round 8: 9-10 Mosley
Round 9: 10-10 even
Round 10: 9-10 Mosley
Round 11: 9-10 Mosley
Round 12: 9-10 Mosley

116-114 Mosley

This is an underrated fight imo. It was basically toe to toe exchanges for 12 full rounds between two of the best P4P fighters of the day. It had a nice ebb and flow to, with Mosley getting the better early on, De la Hoya storming back to control the middle rounds, and Mosley rallying back to take the win. A pattern quickly emerged with De la Hoya patiently stalking and Mosley circling the ring. Mosley kept using this kind of bouncy upper body movement to offset De la Hoya's offense that I don't recall seeing him use very often outside of this fight.

 

Maxim vs Moore

This is Moores title winning exploits.

Moore really brings it in this fight. He looks so strong on that front foot. Such an aggressive counter punching sharp shooter.

The way he comes forward with the constant head movement, maneuvering himself into the pocket where his years of experience allow him to anticipate with perfection when a punch is going to be thrown, so he can counter with his own.

Maxim is too slow footed and is unable to establish his jab, Moore tags him repeatedly and due to his accuracy he lands some very clean shots. Due to his power he hurts Maxim a few times but Joey is carved out of pure iron and lives to see the final bell.

Interesting to see even in the final 2 rounds, Moore must have the decision down up by now but he still comes out hunting a ko. To this point he's still part of the row, still avoided, still doesn't trust the establishment to give him a fair shake.

How to beat Moore at his best? When he's in this kind of form?

Once he was a fully fledged LHW it took something special to beat him. Morrow caught lightening in a bottle and sparked him. Charles, well is Charles. He lost 4 fights due to deductions or DQ. And then there's Marciano being, well Marciano.

And given how active he was, given his age as a LHW, given that to beat him at his best, you had to basically be Ezzard Charles, it's just amazing.

And not forgetting he'd already had an exceptional career as a MW to this point.

It's kinda like if Golovkin moves up to LHW now and reigns for 10 years.

Incredible.

 

Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter v Holly Mims

This is the bout - according to urban myth - where Holly Mims came in as a late sub for the ailing Gomeo Brennan and Carter raised pure hell over having to fight the spoiling Holly Mims. Garden matchmaker Teddy Brenner supposedly had to settle him down by saying, "Rubin, listen to me, YOU...CAN'T...LOSE!" Anyways, take it for what its worth, but I always wanted to see it. NY scoring.

Round 1: Carter
Round 2: Mims
Round 3: Carter
Round 4: Mims (scores a knockdown)
Round 5: Carter
Round 6: Carter
Round 7: Carter
Round 8: Carter
Round 9: Carter
Round 10: Carter

Total: 8-2 Carter (actual scores: 6-3-1 twice and 7-3 all for Carter)

I don't know if it was just me, but I was trying to read Mims body language to see if he was holding back in any way. I did notice after he dropped Carter in the 4th, that in the 5th and 6th he didn't do spit. I'm wondering if he took a scolding from his corner for dropping Carter. I did hear that Mims stated afterwards about the knockdown, "I at least always like to let them know I was there." One of those curious type of bouts that always make you think. I know when I watched Carter's fight with Georgie Benton, I couldn't understand why a cutie like Benton was fighting Carter's fight. Maybe I'm seeing conspiracy everywhere.

 

Moore vs Valdes

Obviously it's just highlights, but I've never seen this fight before.

I couldn't believe it when I saw Moore, fighting the way he always does (once he became a full LHW that is, I'm not talking about the guy who couldn't decide whether he was a brawler or a counter puncher down at MW) walking Valdes down, timing him up close, schooling him on infighting.

I mean what right does Moore have walking Nino down?

He stands and trades with him in the final round.

Stands. And. Trades.

This is Valdes, the best HW Rocky never fought although after the two losses to Moore its easy to see that Marciano smashes him.

But wow, I was expecting some kind of back foot clinic.

 

For me, Moore is top 10 all-time P4P. Just look at what he did.

In the early 40s, he establishes himself on the scene with the Murderer's Row. Somewhat mixed results, but he scores wins over most of them. Now, I don't know about you, but I have all of the BMR members in my top 150, so I find this VERY impressive. And this is whilst clearly, very green Keep that in mind.

Then he heads on the uptrend, growing into his frame, mastering his skills and gaining experience from the deadliest group in history. He hits his prime around 1947, and would be at his peak for about 4 years, before he starts to hit a downward slope. So from '47 to '51, he beats everyone who's anyone in the division. Except Charles, of course. He ends up with multiple wins over: Bivins, Marshall, Johnson and Maxim. All who'd make my top 15 heavyweights, and top 75 P4P. Plus about a thousand good contenders, which was basically just filler for him around this time.

He wins the title, whilst IMO on the decline, but it's certainly arguable he's as good as ever. Goes his entire title run undefeated at light-heavy, and yo-yo'd up and down between HW and 175. In the end he has the longest light-heavyweight title run EVER. And has a heavyweight record of like 60-5, beating guys like Baker, Nino, Henry etc. Keep in mind, this is all, IMO, whilst past prime.

So in the end, he's beaten about a bazillion contenders, about 15 ATGs, established himself as an elite middleweight and heavyweight, is a top two light-heavyweight, then has one of the best title runs of all time whilst past it for the whole thing.

That's legendary ****. And he looks absolutely outstanding on film.

 

It's a strange one with Moore.

I think green is the wrong word, I mean November 45 was when he pretty much became a full time LHW. At this point, he's already got a record of 74-11-5.

Also you have to really look at his losses, I mean really look at them.

Almost all of his losses can be attributed to 3 things

1) Ezzard Charles

2) Point deductions due to low blows

3) HW guys.

That leaves us with only a handful of clear losses:

Billy Adams - 8 rounder, meaningless.
Bandit Romero - won 5 rounds a piece, bigger man gets the decision due to a knockdown, but he wins the rematch.
Teddy Yarosz - he was outboxed fair and square, this was a huge learning experience for him.

By this point he's 34-3-2 and just 22 years old. He hasn't figured out his style yet as brawling clearly hasn't worked for him. He's now been out brawled and out boxed.

Shorty Hogue - 6 rounder, meaningless.

Jack Chase - seems fair, can't see any issues here, but he did avenge it.

Aaron Wade - close contentious decision

Eddie Booker - had Moores number, just as much as Charles did.

Charley Burley - he was schooled here.

Jimmy Bivins - lost to a much bigger man, avenged it many times.

Holman Williams - close contentious decision, avenged it brutally.

Ezzard Charles - He's Ezzard Charles

Leonard Morrow - sparked him, but he avenged it.

Toxie Hall - close contentious decision, avenged

Lloyd Gibson - DQ loss

Clinton Bacon - DQ loss

Harold Johnson - close contentious decision

Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Rinaldi, Ali - HW losses.

So when you actually look at it, his record is nowhere near as spotty as it first looks.

Who can claim to have mastered him really?

Yarosz, Booker, Burley. All at MW. Does Moore lose to these if he weighs at 175, not imo he doesn't.

Charles. At LHW. Since when is losing to Charles something you can criticise.

Marciano, Patterson, Ali. All at HW and certainly 2 out of 3 of those he's past his best.

As a resume, his is as good as anyone's. Top 10, I wouldn't argue too heavily against it. I have him top 25 though.

He's strange in that his physical prime was spent flitting between being an overly aggressive brawler and an overly cautious sharp shooter, this was enough to make him a world class MW. For whatever reason, it took him a very long time to blend the two styles and become a dominant force and the greatest LHW champion in history.

Legend.

 

Mark Breland v Aaron Davis

Not sure if there were any better welterweight title fights in the 90s than this one.

Breland's strengths and weaknesses were on full display here. His jab was his main weapon - when you're a 6'2 ww, inevitably you're going to rely on height and reach. But he looks like his balance is off most of the time, he hangs his chin out too much and doesn't take a big punch too well. Not a good combination of weaknesses.

1 9-10 (jab from Davis puts Breland in trouble and he's on wobbly legs for the rest of the round. He nearly goes down towards the end of the round)
2 10-9 (Breland seems in trouble early - Davis is timing his counters perfectly - but Breland comes back swinging and Davis looks puffed out)
3 8-10 (Breland looks like he's controlling the round at distance with his jab while Davis seems to have gone into his shell - but then catches Breland who stumbles back into the ropes and is knocked down. Either he has bad balance or poor punch resistance.
4 10-9 (good recovery from Breland. Davis's eye is a state)
5 10-9 (Breland bosses the round with his jab)
6 10-9 (close. Davis landed a couple of big shots - and Breland has his chin out there to be hit - but Breland keep him at distance for most of the round)
7 10-9 (Davis survives another visit from the ringside doctor. Breland in control in this round)
8 10-9 (Davis swarms Breland early and gets off some nice winging left hooks that snap his head back but Breland staggers Davis and has him in trouble most of the round. Big round for Breland)
(77-74)
9 Davis KO Breland (I'd have put money on it being the left hook that would have taken Breland out but in the end it was a short right hand)

 

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I've heard for years that this is controversial. I've also heard for years that Young is boring, so I never watched it.

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10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10 (47/48)
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9
9 : 10
10 : 9 (94/96)
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10 (

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This fight was a chore. Early on, it was mediocre action. A huge pain in the arse to score, but educational for someone looking into Jimmy. Which I plan to. Norton banked a few early rounds with plentiful body shots, and high volume. Young took over late, winning rounds on clean punching and ring generalship. I thought the fifteenth was the best rounds, and the hardest round to score. I gave that Norton, but could see it for Young at a push.

I hate Norton's style. It actually offends me. I appreciate that he stands side on, holds his right hand on the left side of his chin so he can catch incoming 1-2s and return them, but he's so open to leaping left hooks that it genuinely annoys me. That said, he did some real good work here. I loved his right hook to the body, which he'd snap under Young's jab. He also cut the ring off pretty well, but Young wasn't out and out running.

Young's jab was good, his defence was stellar, his feet were immaculate and his counters were sneaky. He just didn't throw enough punches for my liking. If he was a bit busier, I think he'd have gotten this decision, I don't think judges like his negative style. I do think that Young had the right idea here, though. He stood his ground and sat on his punches, so he could get Norton's respect. Il paid off in the tenth when he had Ken hurt.

Young seemed to always be in control. It looked like his main asset. He looks like he wants to be in command of the range, the tempo and the exchanges, but Norton's style is to take guys like this out of their comfort zone. I'm interested in seeing how Young defuses a puncher.