Floyd Patterson In The Lightheavyweight Division

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by TipNom, Aug 6, 2020.



  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And Tunney, Conn and Charles weren't Olympic medalists. They were clearly less experienced at 19 years old than Patterson was.
     
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  2. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :applaudit:

    Yes I guess we should rank every light heavyweight who lost a fight before turning 20 in the ATG top 10 haha.
     
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  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Assuming making the weight didn't affect him too much he would have made a huge impact. He and Cus always aimed at a sooner rather than later move to heavyweight and they geared things toward that. Even in his Heavyweight eliminator he was as low as 178. The big question is how making 175 would affect him over time.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Patterson was in his 14th pro fight at 19yo when taking on the experienced Maxim. He had not yet weighed as high as 170 pounds in his career.

    11 out of 11 boxing writers at ringside all scored Floyd as the winner.

    The fight is a non entity as to how Patterson would go as a fully fledged light heavyweight.
     
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  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yvon Durelle, Jimmy Slade.
     
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  6. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Michael Spinks was knocking out Yaqui Lopez in his 14th fight. Everyone who saw it agreed Spinks won (g).

    I’d take Yaqui over Maxim but that’s neither here nor there.

    If that fight is no indication of what kind of light heavyweight Floyd Patterson would be, which fight that he had at 175 pounds would you point me to that indicates that he would have been some kind of ATG at the weight? Because frankly I don’t see any.
     
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  7. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Durelle was going through a real bad patch their second fight — lost like 4 out of 5 and 5 out of 7 — and he wasn’t exactly performing at a world class level when Floyd won the first one.

    Slade, similarly, was in a patch where he lost 6 of 9. And that fight, technically, was at heavyweight.

    Nice wins, on paper anyway, but c’mon. If you think those wins, the Maxim loss and Floyd’s resume at 175 was a rocket ship on a trajectory toward ATG status at 175, whatever. But I don’t see it.

    Compare Floyd through 26 fights (he moved up from light heavyweight after that) and Michael Spinks — a true ATG at 175 — and Michael was going into his 10th defense and had bested, among others: Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez and a boatload of contenders.

    How we can play the ‘but Patterson was XXX years old’ but WTF does that matter when it comes to resume? It’s not ‘who got there before their XXth birthday,’ it’s what they accomplished.

    Both were Olympians and when you star the clock on their professional careers Floyd accomplished a lot less at that weight than Spinks.
     
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  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree. No telling if getting down to 170-175 would have helped him or hurt him. I imagine staying at that weight was possible in his youth but heavyweight was always inevitable.
     
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  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Spinks was 24 years old when he knocked out Lopez. Patterson was still growing agaisnt Maxim, well and truly. Spinks had 50+ more than double the amateur fights than Patterson. When Spinks was 19 he was still 2 years short of turning pro. Chalk and cheese.

    Maxim was still a top #3 light heavyweight when he fought Maxim and given it's extremely likely Patterson deserved the decision i'd count that a fine performance personally. 19yo, 14th pro fight and 168 pounds fighting 177 pounds makes it a plus not a minus for mine.

    Patterson was hitting his straps when he moved up to heavyweight. If he'd spent more time at 175 i have no doubt he would have blossomed - certainly until any possible weight drama's hit.

    If Carlos Monzon decided to campaign at 175 after 50-70 fights we'd have no real evidence he was ever going to be a great middleweight either.

    If Hagler moved to 175 after 25 fights ditto.

    The list is endless. After 26 fights Patterson never again fought at or under 175.
     
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes eventually he would have had to move up. At what point is unclear. It's entirely plausible he could have had a few years.
     
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  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Could have been a two division champion possibly
     
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  12. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Since when did boxing start grading on a age curve? He was a pro with 14 bouts. Do we discredit Ali because he was older than 20 when he beat Listen and practically ancient when he beat Foreman? No, we don’t. Once you step between the ropes as a professional it counts.

    We can judge Patterson as a light heavy based only on his resume in the division. He did nothing spectacular there and didn’t win a title. In the same amount of fights Patterson had at 175, Michael Spinks won a title, beat Hall of Famers and made nine defenses of a championship he won.

    Patterson doesn’t get to chalk up mythical belts and wins because of what age he turned pro at. There is no sliding curve.
     
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  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Of that i would have no doubt. If the 190 cruisers existed probably 3 divisions.
     
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  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Age is relevant just as number of bouts is relevant. No mention of Spinks extra 50 amateur bouts? Spinks was a more experienced campaigner in his 14th bout than Floyd and also more mature physically due to age. It's simple context.

    Pipino Cuevas turned pro at 13 and it's brutally obvious some concessions need to be given for those early losses against adults.

    Spinks was at a deeper point both physically and experience wise than Patterson was at the 14 fight mark. It isn't debatable.

    He didn't have time to do anything spectacular nor win a title. What Spinks did in a period of X amount of fights means nothing.

    What we do know is that he, by design, moved up to heavyweight and blitzed the current light heavyweight champion for the heavyweight title. One fight prior Patterson weighed 178 in winning an eliminator to fight for said title.

    Patterson had just 19 light heavyweight fights in all. At this stage Spinks had won the title and defended twice.

    As explained they were on different career arcs. There are loads of fighters that have not won titles at the 20-25 bout stage. Spinks moved faster than most to say the least. What he did at different stages has zero to do with how Patterson would have went if he stayed there. It's totally asinine. In his 32nd fight Patterson collected the heavyweight title and began making defenses. He'd lost just one fight against Maxim which was highly disputed.

    Heavyweight was where he aimed - by early design.

    Already addressed.
     
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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    There's also the fact he battered Moore in 56.

    If Floyd can make 175 in 1956, I've no doubt he batters him there as well.
     
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