King didn't 'poison' his mind. Tyson grew up. When he was 18 and 19, it was all about boxing and training. When he got to be 21 and 22, it didn't. Ever raise a 21 or 22 year-old kid? They may listen to you when they are 18 or 19 (or maybe not even that long). When they are 22, they are adults and they are allowed to do their own thing. This ridiculous narrative about King 'poisoning' Tyson is just that. Was every other young phenom who switched trainers and managers poisoned? Was Oscar De La Hoya poisoned when he dumped his original manager and trainers and promoter? And then his second, third or 15th trainer? How many trainers and managers and promoters did Holyfield have? Was Holyfield 'poisoned' when he dumped Ken Sanders just before fighting Douglas for the title? Did Dan Duva 'poison' him? How many trainers has Tyson Fury had? Was he poisoned, too? Three years into his pro career, Tyson switched his manager and trainer. The same has happened THOUSANDS of times with THOUSANDS of fighters who decide they don't want to work with the people they started with anymore, for whatever reasons those may be. Tyson never had a close relationship with Cayton. And Tyson didn't want Rooney anymore. The people he did have close relationships with were dead. So, it was over.
Tyson was lighting in a bottle. The peek a boo style takes immense precision to work. Tyson lost his mentor and was still mentally immature. It just wasn’t meant to last. King moved in and was a total toxin on Mike. With his size and dimensions the amount of effort he had to put in to consistently dominate bigger men takes a toll. The peek a boo maximized Tyson’s inherent gifts. Giachetti was a horrible trainer. Brought nothing to the table. Just watch the Holyfield fight- everytime Mike throws a lead right hand, Holyfield knows exactly where Mike’s head will be at the finish of it and would fire counter in that spot and nailed Mike over and over. Giacheitti never even tried to tell Mike or correct it. Shows what a good corner and game plan can do in a big fight. If Mike got Rooney back he would win the Douglas rematch and 91 Holyfield in tough fight. The wheels would probably come off by then too but his legacy would of been cemented by then.
Mike Tyson didn't want Kevin Rooney for a trainer. There was no Douglas rematch in 1990 because Holyfield was the mandatory and Douglas lost to Holyfield. And Tillis countered Tyson effectively. Tucker countered Tyson effectively. Thomas countered Tyson effectively. You act like Mike Tyson never got hit and could do no wrong when Kevin Rooney was his trainer. Watch the Tyson-Bonecrusher Smith fight again, when you have an hour to watch bad boxing. You guys are living in a fantasy world. And what did Giachetti do wrong when Tyson fought Alex Stewart? What did Snowell do wrong when Tyson fought Carl Williams? What did Freddy Roach do wrong when Tyson fought Savarese? What did Tommy Brooks do wrong when Tyson fought Andrew Golota? His other trainers were all there nights when Tyson destroyed guys, too. Just like Rooney was there on occasions when Tyson ate shots and looked bad or bored. Did those trainers all suck when they worked with guys like Holmes, Holyfield, Manny, Pryor, Witherspoon, McCallum, Taylor, Randall, both Klitschkos, Starling ... or did they just suck because Tyson didn't blow out Holyfield like he blew out Sterling Bejamin? Give me a break.
Pfff, you sound like a Tyson hating moron. Tucker, Tillis, and Thomas countered Tyson effectively??? Tyson outjabbed Tucker and far outlanded him despite having a huge deficit in height and reach. Tillis ran all night and Thomas got his ass beat. How did any of those guys counter Tyson EFFECTIVELY?? You can keep repeating that Tyson wanted to get rid of Rooney it doesnt change the circumstances of how he areived at that point which was a direct result of Kings machinations. His entire plan centered around alienating Tyson from his original inner circle. Quit acting like King was an innocent in all of these decisions. He and Robin Givens set out from the start to hook Mike, alienate him, and milk him for all he was worth and they succeeded. sorrounding him with King yes men and chumps whose loyalty to King could be bought and sold cheaply was a part of that. Everyone who lived through those times and has half a brain knows that. Talk about revisionist history blaming Tyson for Bonecrusher running and holding all night and throwing one punch in anger in the last ten seconds of the fight. You sound just like that idiot Frank Lotierzo.
Wow you get defensive. I never said Tyson didn’t get hit, you’re putting words into my statement, I said watch the Holyfield fight and you see a one dimensional Tyson that was easy to counter. Yea he got hit in other fights, he was an aggressive fighter that gave up height and reach in almost every bout he’s gonna get hit. However if you can’t see the diminishing returns on Tyson as his career progressed I don’t know what to say. And that’s on Mike. But Rooney clearly molded the juggernaut version of him. I never mentioned any other trainer except giachetti who I stand by as being a bad trainer, for Mike. Yeah we all know he didn’t want Rooney that’s on him and we know the history of the Douglas Holyfield bout and everything else that was involved, I was talking hypotheticals.
Yes he would have been a more formidable fighter for a longer period of time had he never crossed paths with King
What? (LOL) All I said was Tyson grew up and his trainers were good trainers. How is that hating on him? (LOL) And I am not Frank Lotierzo, wherever you got that from. And, guess what, fighters' wives spend their husband's money. All boxers' wives spend their money. What Robin Givens did was no different than any other boxer's wife in history. Hell, Chris Byrd's wife became his manager. So did Shane Mosley's wife. So did Amir Khan's wife. Were those conspiracies, too? You act like Robin Givens was the first wife who wanted to spend her husband's money. Fighters change trainers. Fighters wives spend their money. Ever been married? Because you need to get laid. Have a nice weekend.
Tyson would've been a formidable fighter for a longer period of time if he didn't go to jail for three and a half years. And Don King didn't attend the Miss Black America Pageant, bring Desiree Washington up to Tyson's room, and hold her down. Still, being a formidable heavyweight for the better part of 18 years was pretty damn good. Longer than most. Without King, there is no HBO Heavyweight tournament. Tyson doesn't unify the titles by 1988. Tyson doesn't get his $30 million a fight deal with the MGM Grand and set PPV records. Tyson doesn't get to do a lot of things he's known for. Hell, he got a title shot against Berbick when he did because he was entered into the tournament. Who knows how many years he'd have had to wait for a title shot if there was no tournament. Tyson wasn't a mandatory in any org. It's not like Cayton and Jacobs had any contol over the other heavyweights. Like I said, their only previous heavyweight experience was trying to get fights in the U.S. for Kallie Knoetze, and they didn't do a bang-up job. Without King, Mike Tyson could've easily ended up being another Gerry Cooney ... watching the other heavyweights with strong promoters fighting each other while he fought old names.
Are you kidding me King was Tyson worst mistake but he couldn't read he a trainwreck waiting to happen.
Where does he go if he doesn't align himself with King in '86? He certainly wouldn't have received a title fight in his second year as a pro. He only got the fight with Berbick because he was allowed to enter the tournament King was promoting. Does Tyson wait until they create the WBO belt in 1989 and Cayton uses his South Africa ties to get Tyson a vacant WBO title fight with Johnny DuPlooy, which would remove him from the top 10 of the other orgs? Does he have to wait five or six years for a title fight? Does he ever unify? None of the WBO heavyweight champs were included in any unifications until 2008. I don't think you guys have thought any of this through.
It is clear to anyone that King wanted Rooney gone, I thought most people knew that. But it's also clear to anyone King got Tyson the biggest fights. Such a doubled edged sword.
Tyson wanted Rooney gone, too. Just like Tyson wanted Atlas gone. Just like Tyson cut loose Freddy Roach. Just like Tyson cut loose Giachetti and Brooks and Snowell. If Tyson didn't want to work with you anymore, he didn't. Nobody was going to force him to continue working with a trainer he didn't want around. Don King wasn't in the gym with the trainers. Mike Tyson was.
The trainers that came after make no difference, we're on about Rooney here. It is known that King wanted Rooney gone.
And it is known Tyson wanted him gone, too. Right? And the trainers after and before make a difference, too, because it's not like he kept any of them for any extended period of time. Mike Tyson was a pro for 18 years - or 14 and a half - and Rooney was his pro trainer for all of three years.
