Headbutt being ignored by the media?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jjax, Jul 5, 2008.


  1. jjax

    jjax Active Member Full Member

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    Update:

    Jake Donovan of MaxBoxing replied and explained his perspective, the story on MaxBoxing was a first draft, an updated article noting the butt was posted later elsewhere. He acknowledges the butt, though gives the body shot more significance that I do, and gives more credit to Holt than I did. Classy guy, no doubt.

    Tim Starks of MVN.com also replied, he's a cool guy who was among the first to point out the butt, and agreed that the body shot didn't look very significant.

    Graham Houston replied earlier this morning, it was a bit of a misunderstanding, I replied this evening.
     
  2. trepid_monsoon

    trepid_monsoon New Member Full Member

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  3. nervousxtian

    nervousxtian Trolljegeren Full Member

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    That angle clearly shows that the butt was unintentional.. Torress ducked into Holt's head.
     
  4. K0NPHL1C7

    K0NPHL1C7 Well-Known Member Full Member

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  5. san rafael

    san rafael 0.00% lemming Full Member

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    It's nice and clear, good clip. Holt is clearly plowing his head forward. Torres took a big step backward to give himself room to punch and Holt rammed his head directly into Torres' chin as Torres started to rotate on his punch. Torres wasn't even able to get halfway through the punching motion as Holt's head smashed into his face. Holt stepped in and upward. You can actually see Torres lift up several inches from the impact. That was tremendous. Holt did a little superman dive to build speed right before he rammed his head into Torres' face. Definately one of the best tactical headbutts in the history of the sport. He saved the fight.
     
  6. jjax

    jjax Active Member Full Member

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    Wow when I watch the butt in super slow motion, it becomes more debatable whether it was intentional or not.

    san rafael, good analysis. There was no reason for Holt to step forward the way he did, it gained him no advantage to ram into Torres unintentionally. It looked like he threw everything he had into the body shot and a result changed his pivot stance, but after the body shot, there is no tactical reason to explain why Holt plowed forward and upward besides going for a headbutt. Notice his fists weren't in position to throw anything and he didn't release any meaningful punch, the only thing that could have connected in that sequence was his head, and it did.

    It's debatable what his intention was when he rose up, whether he wanted a clash of heads for a pause, a ref break-up and warning, etc., but there is no tactical reason to explain Holt's movement other than an intention to clash heads, which in this case gave him a HUGE advantage and took Torres out.

    This is terrible. I was polite about Holt's intentions to my emails, but upon further review, you could definitely make the case that Holt had bad intentions.
     
  7. jjax

    jjax Active Member Full Member

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    Ugh. In several post-fight write-ups, including Fischer's at Max, they write that the butt was as muich Torres' fault as Holt's, and that Torres ran into Holt's head.

    Upon watching that replay frame by frame, a different story emerges. Holt had his head well in front of his fists the entire sequence, and was moving forward and upward head first, not in position to land any meaningful punch.

    He is not an inside fighter and is not going for the clinch, when closing the gap there is nothing meaningful thrown or landed, in that small gap the only meaningful shot that could have landed was his head.

    This is really ****ed up. Holt is being celebrated like Rocky when in fact he may have cheated. Torres may have suffered a career-ending knockout in this turn of events rather than a (likely) spectacular knockout for himself.
     
  8. marting

    marting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think the headbutt was intentional. Torres was going for broke, Holt was bending and dipping trying to survive. He was up against the ropes and looked like he was trying to smother Torres. Torres got sloppy and really has no one to blame but himself.

    I do think the beer bottle to Holt's head in Columbia was intentional.
     
  9. Azriel

    Azriel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wow, Eze, do you know what a body shot is? You should really stop with your arguments 'cause right now, you look like an idiot.
     
  10. Brummy1976

    Brummy1976 Guest

    Er, fact is, that head butt was nasty as f**k, and could easily of stunned him, suprised it did'nt get mentioned. You need a chill pill mr !
     
  11. Relentless

    Relentless VIP Member banned

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    bodyshots usually wind you, most guys go down because they can't breath.

    that said i just watched the fight and i cant believe how you can debate if it was the bodyshot or the headbutt that hurt torres, that bodyshot didn't even effect him, after the headbutt he fell back on the ropes and his legs went.
     
  12. eze

    eze Everybody Know Me Full Member

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    I simply stated it's harder to move when a good bodyshot lands. Not easier like if you just took a really good shot to the chin.

    Example, a bodyshot isn't going to do what Corley did to Cotto. Cotto's legs were jelly , he could move them but he couldn't control them to well.

    If he took a bodyshot he wouldn't of been moving around like that, in fact, he wouldn't of been dancing around like that either.



    And it was clear as day it was the headbutt not the bodyshot. Lets pretend the bodyshot never happened.
     
  13. san rafael

    san rafael 0.00% lemming Full Member

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    Cheers, jjax. :good
     
  14. Mikey

    Mikey I'm An Uzi Lover Full Member

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    If you even watch it in slow slow super sloath slow motion, the headbutt not only looks intentional but I think Holt actually goes to actually murder Torres.

    Are you ******s ****ing serious?
     
  15. jjax

    jjax Active Member Full Member

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    Thanks bro. I wouldn't have bothered to review the clip again if you hadn't pointed out Holt's subtle and unusual movements indicating intent, you caught on to that first no doubt.