Is Jim Jeffries criminally underrated today?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Greb & Papke 707, Sep 21, 2020.



  1. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

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    I never see him in any top ten since the 70’s ...
     
  2. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I am curious if Dempsey ever saw Fitzimmons or Jefferies fight; i don't think he did.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    History shows us that no era is ever easy to dominate, even for a strong champion.
    The counter argument to that, would be that they represent a fairly small window of opportunity, and perhaps none at all in McVeas case.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This thread is about Jim Jeffries
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    A promoter offered a substantial guarantee for Jeffries to defend against McVey ,if McVey was so easy, why didnt Jeffries take the offer? You know this to be true ,so why you are implying there was no window of opportunity is puzzling.The offer was made directly after McVey knocked out Martin.
    It was postulated that McVey would give Jeffries a tough fight because at 205lbs he was a physical match for him ,something that Jeffries himself remarked upon.The challenge to Jeffries came at the end of 1903 Jeffries ignored it and instead his next and last defence was against the luck less Jack Munroe,the financial returns for which were understandably dissapointing to Jeffries who announced he would not partake in any more such ventures and that if a White challenger of suitable ability and financial drawing power, was not forthcoming he would retire.
    "There is one man who might have a faint chance of success,and that is Sam McVey the Oxnard Giant.He weighs in excess of 200lbs and has a very hard wallop" San Francisco Evening Post August 17 1903.
    They say there are only two men who have a chance with Jeffries,thats Sam McVey and myself.Well I have beaten Mr McVey once and can do it again,anytime he gets a side bet ready.My man now is Jeffries,Im big enough,weigh near 200lbs,and I'll tell you the fight wont be one-sided .He can't toucha man with his right ,and I'm sure I could take care of that left and slip him a few on the side." Jack Johnson.
    Personally I'd pick Jeffries to beat Johnson in1903 but that isnt the point ,both McVey and Johnson would have provided better tests for the champion than second rater Munroe .
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He is and he's legit top 15 HW ever. Anyone who calls his era weak doesn't know what he's talking about either. Top contenders were very active then, the best fought the best consistently - unlike in a lot of other eras. 1890s is certainly a strong era for HW, likely better than 1905-15 for example.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No Langford said Dempsey was the greatest fighter he ever saw and I posted the verified quote.
    Here it is again just for you.

    "Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen. He hits twice as hard as Jim Jeffries and is as fast in the ring as James J. Corbett."The Atlanta Constitution June5th 1922!


    You posted nothing, including no quote from you of Dempsey describing Jeffries as the greatest. Dempsey said he was one of the greatest which is entirely different.
    Here is Dempsey's quote in which he mentions Jeffries.
    JACK DEMPSEY, New York
    Former heavyweight champion
    "It's unfair to name any one heavyweight as the greatest. Other greats were Gene Tunney, Jim Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jim Jeffries and Jake Kilrain.

    As you yourself provided it ! Perhaps you can agree that nowhere does Dempsey say Jeffries was the greatest!


    Nor have you posted a verified quote of Johnson stating Jeffries was the greatest and I know you won't, because he never said it .,Johnson did say Fitzsimmons was the best before himself,and I can find the quote if you want to dispute this further. Johnson rated Joe Walcott and Joe Gans as the best pound for pound so once again you are wrong, in fact you've been wrong on just about all your statements here so far.
     
  8. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

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    Here we go again ...
     
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  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    "Top contenders were very active then?" Let's look at this statement.
    Jeffries defended against Corbett twice.
    1st Fight Corbett had not fought for a year and a half and had not won a fight for 4 years.
    2nd Fight Corbett had not fought for3 years.
    Jeffries won the title from Fitz ,who had not defended it for2 years.
    Jeffries defended against Fitz ,who again had not fought for 2 years.
    Jeffries fought Peter Jackson,who had not fought for 5 and a half years.

    If you class this as "very active ,"what would you consider to be very inactive?
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with that. If you line up Jeffiries with Liston or Marciano, what you'll see is the same objections raised over and over again. Heavyweight rankings basically come down to personal choice for most people, or at least their lists are shot through with personal preference in a way that is unique. This might be because Heavies seem so fundamental to most people. Whatever the reason, it's true.

    And being honest, that's okay with me because like you say, it's the division with the fewest "rules" on who should rank where, pros and cons are very diversive (again, probably because it's the most fundamental division). People on here will argue for days about who is greater out of Holyfield and Liston and there's' really no right answer. You move to middleweight and you'll see clearer arguments across the board.

    Personally, although I rank him in the teens, I have zero issues with Jeffries ranking at number five, or Wlad, or Wills, or a host of other guys.
     
  11. Marcus_Italicus

    Marcus_Italicus New Member Full Member

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    The comparison between boxers of different eras is problematic in principle. Different rules, different equipment, different training, different social context etc. Jeffries dominated his era and he was highly regarded by those who knew him. That is enough to consider it an ATG. One can argue endlessly about "what if", whether the real Jeffries (not his old shadow ...) could beat Johnson, or Dempsey, or Louis, or Marciano, or Liston, or Ali, or Vitali K. or or or
    The quality of his opposition is high. Some (not all) old, yes, but very good.
    He retired undefeated, before his sad return. In his prime, he paved every opponent at least once. Some great, many good boxers, few tomatoes among the opponents.
    Great athletic skills, especially endurance. Strong personality in a very tough era of boxing. The rest are details.
    PS Excuse my poor english.
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Not so, lots of people still have him in their top 10. Steve Farhood for example and about 1/2 the historians in the IBRO.
     
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  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    https://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=173109
     
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  14. Marcus_Italicus

    Marcus_Italicus New Member Full Member

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    For Tracy Callis, Jeffries is the n.1 HW. It is an unusual opinion, but Jeffries still has admirers today.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Yes, he gave rematches. They don't have to happen in a year just because you want them too. Did Ali re-match Foreman? Did Johnson re-match anyone as champion?:ibutt

    Fighters back were in shape, and their records are incomplete, Fitz for example went on tour KO'ing joe local types. Corbett was razor sharp for his first fight. Sharkey in better condition for his re-match.

    As a young Champion, Jeffries beat Fitz, Sharkey and Corbett in one year from 1899-1900. That is amazing, I can not recall one heavyweight champion beating his top 3 competition so quickly, in a year, can you? Name them! I say you can't and will duck this point.

    Status quo stuff from you. The question of the thread is Jeffries underrated? You can say yes or no, but applying yoru double standards to suit you agenda isn't going to fly.