Is Jim Jeffries criminally underrated today?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Greb & Papke 707, Sep 21, 2020.



  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't believe it happened, but if Jeffries really beat Denver Ed Martin, then it is a historical win. But again - I don't believe that it happened, why should I?

    Jeffries has strong resume anyway, probably the best one before Louis. I wish he didn't retire that early, with more fights he would finish higher on my list, even with one or two more losses.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I would say it would be his 5th to 6th best win. If its reported by different sources and given some detail like the Childs and Cotton fight, it likely happened.

    Teir 1

    Fitz
    Corbett
    Sharkey

    Teir 2

    Ruhlin
    Griffin
    Martin ???
    Munroe

    I you count his European tour where Jeffries KO'd ten men, its probably he won 35-40+ fights.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    If you look at the photos is not hard to see. Jeffries had a 50 inch expanded chest and thighs reported to over 30". Let's say 25" for the legs, that's bigger than most modern champions. He was super strong.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Liston's ex chest was 46 1/2
    Foreman's 45 1/2
    Norton's 47 1/2
    Frazier's 45
    Baer's 47
    Holmes 45 1/2
    Lewis' 46
    Tua's 51
    Tysons 44

    Thighs
    Frazier's 26 1/2
    Louis' 26
    Baer's 20
    Foreman's 26
    Tua 30
    Lewis 26
    Tyson 26 1.2

    I'm saying Jeffries having a bigger expanded chest than
    Lewis [4"]
    Baer [3"]
    Liston [3 1/2]
    Foreman[4 1/2]

    Is total BULL ****!
    As is him having thighs bigger by 3 1/2 " than Frazier and Tyson, 4" than Foreman & Lewis and the same size as Tua's.

    Produce the proof!

    https://www.*******.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79207
    Here is a link that has Jeffries ex chest at 48 1/2 and his thigh at 25 .
    It has Jess Willard's ex chest as 49 1/2 and thigh at 26.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  5. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Taking this one at a time from the info given in Adam Pollock's biography of Jeffries on the Choynski fight:

    San Francisco Chronicle

    "The decision was questioned by a great many people, as Choynski clearly outpointed his opponent in cleverness, hitting powess, and ring generalship generally."

    San Francisco Evening Post

    "It was almost unanimous that the men had put up a good fight and that the decision of Referee MacDonald was all that could be given under the circumstances."

    The San Francisco Bulletin

    The decision was "quite fair"

    The San Francisco Call

    "The decision was received with satisfaction by the entire audience." but "From a scientific point of view, Choynski should certainly have been acknowledged the winner."

    Both Tom Sharkey and Joe Goddard stated it was a fair decision.

    Even Jim Jeffries, although sometimes claiming he won, was quoted as saying,

    "I did the forcing and landed the only knockdowns, but Choynski deserved a lot of credit for his cleverness. I was satisfied."

    In 1903, Jeff said, "Joe Choynski struck me the hardest blow I ever received. . . . He let go his right and I thought my head left my body. The blow dazed me, but I recovered quickly. That was the closest call I ever had in the ring."

    I think clearly this was a close fight with one man the stylish boxer and one man pushing the action. It is the sort of fight in which it always depends on which style most appeals to the observer. Adam Pollack has the quotes to show that the ringsiders did not see this as Jeff being robbed. To the extent that there was a dispute with the outcome, it seems to lean slightly to Choynski should have gotten the nod because of his superior boxing. Choynski did more than just jab and run though. He cut up Jeff and bloodied his nose, and by Jeff's own admission, hurt him.

    Without film, there is no good evidence to dispute the draw verdict.

    As for the Ruhlin draw, I was going to post on it but McVey already has. The Evening Post thought Jeff should have gotten the decision because of the finish. The Chronicle and Bulletin thought the decision fair. This also seems a value judgment. Does finishing strongly win one a fight one was not winning up to then?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  6. kolchak65

    kolchak65 New Member Full Member

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    My answer to the question of this thread's title is: No.
     
  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    There wasn't many fights for him unless he broke the color line. He had lost motivation by the second Corbett fight. He was willing to fight Hart though
     
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  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know that and had he beaten Hart and maybe one of the best black fighters (Johnson or McVea for example), I'd see him as top 10 HW ever. He destroyed his chanced by retiring too early.
     
  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jack Johnson was the coloured champion and definitely of note.
     
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don't count the Johnson loss against him. So for me he was basically Marciano if Rocky had refused to face his best challenger on account of his skin colour. And I think he generally gest ranked accordingly around here, so not underrated in my book.
     
  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He became the one in 1903, so Jeffries had small window before retirement.
     
  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He had enough, and he didn't have to retire. I'm pretty sure he said outright that he wouldn't face Johnson because of the colour line (@mcvey might have some reference to this), so time didn't have much to do with it.
     
  13. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Genuine questions - Was Jack Johnson not a fighter of note, some time prior to becoming the colored champion? If so, roughly how long prior to becoming the colored champion could he have been considered a fighter of note and does this said "window" not increase in size accordingly?
     
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    @mcvey @janitor and @Boilermaker are the resident experts on this period. Maybe the can shed some light.
     
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  15. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    From my recollection, Johnson was chasing Jeffries all around the country when Jeffries was champion. And then Jeffries drew the color line to avoid Johnson before retiring to avoid the fight.
     
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