Ah, the benevolent mob. If you trust mobbed-up fighters like Jake to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth then you need to look into this bridge in the Arizona desert I can get you in on. You have this real quirk about bringing in fighters and factors that have nothing to do with a discussion that you somehow think makes your point. On the thread where I maintained Floyd Patterson wasn’t a good ambassador for boxing, you jumped in and talked about Ali and the Nation of Islam — saying that Ali and the leaders of his religion preached this or that — as if somehow that has anything to do with whether Patterson was a good ambassador (I wouldn’t agree with you, but if you raised that to say that Ali wasn’t a good ambassador, fair play, at least you think it supports your point, but nothing Ali nor Nation of Islam ever said or did makes Floyd an ambassador). In this case, like fighting black fighters (most of them welterweights lol) — what does that have to do with anything? Or like Graziano has anything to do with Jake being mobbed up. Like going on the road — IF you’re a mobbed-up fighter, the in New York would have ties with the mob in other cities who could protect the ‘investment.’ Is it your contention that a fighter ‘owned’ by the mob would never fight black fighters? Or never fight away from home? See, this is another perfect illustration of how you just don’t see that your ‘research’ doesn’t make your conclusions any more valid — you cite things that have nothing to do with the thesis (unless you believe that mobbed-up fighters never fought African Americans or fought on the road, as if doing either or both amounts to proof that a fighter isn’t mobbed up).
Nobody is going to alter your opinion ,you have a closed mind on this so I'm not wasting any more time here
That goes both ways. There is indisputable proof that: 1) LaMotta threw a fight for the mob 2) That LaMotta was gifted a title shot that he wouldn’t have gotten otherwise by the mob Yet you won’t agree that he was a mob guy. Your boy Klompton even says the mob wouldn’t let their guys (Cerdan was one) put the title up against non-mob guys (which you maintain LaMotta was not a mob guy), yet LaMotta got the title shot (which he won under fishy circumstances) and you still don’t see it.
Nobody is going to alter your opinion ,you have a closed mind on this so I'm not wasting any more time here Lamotta wasnt gifted anything he paid thousands of dollars for a title shot. Lamotta threw a fight because it was the only way he could get a title shot if he was mobbed up he would not have had to do so thats just common sense logic! What is fishy about the Cerdan fight? Klompton is not," my boy"we had a ding dong argument two days ago,but on this occasion he is right and you are wrong and this is confirmed in dozens of books on the subject. Now I really am out, I'd like to say its been a pleasure but it hasn't ,it's been a pain!
So he threw a fight to get a title shot. Yet he paid thousands of dollars to get a title shot. So why did he throw the fight? (Because his mob buddies told him to.) Books where we believe mob guys told the truth. Go back and look at your history and you’ll see during this time period the mob would tell you there was no mob, lol. If I show you that in a book will you then believe there was no organized crime? Of course LaMotta and the mob didn’t come out and say ‘we’re in bed together, the sport is rigged.’ Why would they? LaMotta originally claimed he lost to Fox because he went into it with some sort of spleen injury or condition, right? You want to believe that one too? Cerdan quit with an ‘injury.’ A guy giving up his title when he could still stand wasn’t done in those days — there are plenty of people who will tell you Sonny Liston threw the first Ali fight because he quit, but, as usual, when it comes to events involving beloved Jake the normal logic doesn’t apply. Maybe that’s what the money was for, to entice Cerdan to drop it to Jake with their mob friends brokering the deal.
You do realize that Cerdan won his title when Zale quit on his stool right? Thats in addition to all of the other champions who retired in the corner... Like Mcvey said, nobody will change your opinion which was formulated on zero facts so its not worth wasting time on you.
Excuses. Excuses. If Foreman lost to Frazier in his first pro fight you would have said "Foreman was 19 years old and in his first pro fight!!!!"
What would change your opinion? The facts don’t: Jake threw a fight for the mob (one that we know of). Jake got a title fight arranged by the mob. Those aren’t in dispute, are they? If it looks like a fish and smells like a fish, it’s a fish. Jake was a mob guy by very definition of doing business with the mob to guide his fight career. Yet you say, ‘no he wasn’t because he said so and the mob said so.’ You believe the mob. I believe the facts. Me, I’d change my mind if convinced that Jake actually did lose to Fox because of a spleen injury (funny you don’t take his word on that) and that the mob didn’t arrange his title fight. That would suffice for me to believe that he didn’t do business with the mob and thus wasn’t a mob guy. You and McVey are playing a very old parlor trick of saying I wont change my mind, but you obviously won’t change yours (either of you). Hell, I cited for you in the thread on who was Ali’s trainer the words from the very guy you (still) claim was his trainer that he was the conditioning coach and massuese and you still wouldn’t change your mind — even though he himself said otherwise (in addition to a ton of other evidence like Ali telling all of the technical things he learned from Dundee in an interview). Yet I’m the one who won’t change his mind? LOL. So I ask again, apart from those facts stated above, which you do not dispute (Jake threw a fight for the mob and got a title shot arranged by the mob), what would it take to make you change your mind on this? I told you what it would take to change my mind and I’m open to any evidence disproving those two things if you can provide it. Also, since you conveniently (as usual) skipped over it — how do you reconcile your own assertions that (a) the mob protected its champions by not letting them fight non-mob guys, (b) Cerdan was a mob guy and (c) LaMotta (who you claim was not a mob guy) getting a shot at Cerdan? (Not to mention, you claim as evidence that LaMotta fought black fighters and fought on the road as some kind of evidence that he was not a mob guy — complexion aside, if mob guys don’t go on the road to fight why did Cerdan go from France to Detroit to fight LaMotta if mob guys didn’t go on the road?) You couldn’t train a dog to jump through all the hoops of illogic one has to jump through to come to most of your conclusions that fly in the face of actual facts. So either tell me what it would take to change your mind and explain your contradictions or accept that you’re the close-minded one who is scrambling to make up stuff out of whole cloth to support your assertions (‘Jake fought black guys, he couldn’t be a mob fighter’ lol) and don’t reply.
Of course you're right. You'll get guys like Klompton telling you the opposite, that everyone else was mobbed up, and LaMotta was the victim - basically parrotting LaMotta's version. LaMotta actually lost a 10 round decision to Laurent Dauthuille and was gifted a 12 round decision against Robert Villemain in February and March 1949, and was given a shot at Marcel Cerdan in June before having to rematch either of them ! But there are people out there who will say LaMotta was frozen out and hard-done-by. Like you said, by his own admission, LaMotta did a deal and threw a fight for the mob. He admitted this because everyone knew it anyway, the fight stunk so bad. And, yeah, of course, LaMotta, who really wasn't a nice character at all, put his own spin on it to make himself the victim, like he was above the rest of them.
Your underlined just proves the point that he was promised the title shot for going in the tank to Fox! Prior to doing that he was frozen out as his ranking in the previous 7 years emphatically shows . Lamotta was number6 in 42 number 1 in43 number 2 in44 number 3 in45 number1 in46 number5 in47 number 3 in48 Bull**** that fighters didn't give up their titles on their stools in those days betrays a profound ignorance of the times by Saint Pat. Pep did it against Saddler. Pender did it against Downes.Zale didn't come out for the 12rd againstCerdan.
probably as good a time as any to share one of my all-time favourite left hooks. Right there with SRR's on Fulmer or Floyd's on Ingo, and as effortless as JJW's shot on the man throwing this one. If you don't feel like watching the whole fight, go to 7.15 This content is protected
Curiously, what was LaMotta's own venue? I am just interested. I looked at the venues for his fights and seems to be the usual big boxing auditoriums--Madison Square Garden, Detroit Olympia, Boston Gardens, etc. What was his venue? And which fights did he promote?
So why does everybody and their brother look at the first Ali-Liston fight and say Sonny threw it and cite quitting on his stool. It doesn’t mean everyone who ever quit on their stool was throwing the fight for the mob, that’s silly. But it is suspicious. Convenient. Jake did the job for his mob buddies. Then he got the title shot from his mob buddies. He was a mobbed-up fighter.
Ray Arcel got hit with a lead pipe by his mob buddies. Then he quit competing with their television promotions doing them a huge favor. I guess he was mobbed up too.
LaMotta owned the Park Arena and Jerome Stadium. He had a television deal for his promotions which lasted a few years but when the IBC and the mob started putting together their monopoly on TV dates they forced LaMotta to sell his venues to them at loss. Like I said, he was no friend to the mob regardless of what some morons want to think. I never pretended LaMotta was a saint. He wasnt. He was a pretty trashy human being. However he was also a victim of the mob. The two things arent mutually exclusive.
