My points are fine. I don't hear you or anyone saying that's not true. GGG would never drop a fight to a man of Tiberi's talent. I find Toney and some of his fans to be mouthy. He didn't fight Wlad but had the chance to and took a fight for less money vs a non name. He was out boxed not only by Jones ( badly ) and Nunn, but also by the likes of Sam Peter. white Toney was on Ped's. I did not see the McCallum fights, but the queen has come up. McCallum says he wasn't in his prime, so Toney beating him, via narrow margin is not impressive. Your take on this is? You'd like me much better on threads where I think the fighters you lie would do better. You might want to check out Holyfield vs Foreman.
my take on this is that most of your post is irrelevant to the subject matter of this thread.Again the thread relates to a head to head prime matchup between Toney and GGG middleweight.As for the Mc Callum fight, that win is better than anything on GGG’s record.I thought Toney was breaking Nunn down.again I do not know why you are focusing on record when Toney has the better record. Prime GGG is a good fighter and it would be a good competitive fight.It is not like Toney would run over him.The slickness, chin, hand speed and infighting ability of Toney, this would carry him to a close UD in my opinion.
All these years and this is how I see you in every discussion. I can fully accept if you favour GGG, but bringing up Tiberi is not an honest argument. The OP asked about the best versions of both at MW, and you full well know that Toney wasn't at his best against Tiberi. You know this, so why do you keep on like this? If you feel GGG at his best beats the Toney that faced McCallum, fair enough. I certainly can accept that. But then say that. Don't bring up the Tiberi fight like you don't full well know that wasn't Toney at his MW best.
Hello London, I think you know your stuff, as such I look forward to your reply. Toney fans say he's this master boxer. When he fought two really good boxers at his weight, he lost the majority of the rounds big time.( Jones and Nunn ) He should have lost to Tiberi too, don't you agree? Yes or No. All three of these guys had a jab, a good one bothers Toney. GGG has more than a good jab and better power or chin than any of these men! And wasn't Toney was in serious trouble in a fight, badly cut and needed the KO, and got it, I forget who the opponent was. Can you help me out on that one. Was that the Willians fight? He was behind and got a 12 round TKO. We are talking about 4 or 5 fights here, not 2. I don't see this " Master boxer " , and these fights happened before Toney was 30 year old. AKA, his prime Also what's up with the split decision over Johnson where he was down in round two? Don't you think such a great fighter should have won via bigger margin? There is also a draw with Sanderline Williams? Who? I guess you can excuse that one was Toney was green. No hiding about his performances here. I have not seen the draw or SD over McCullum. Do you agree that McCullum was past his best as he claimed? These fights are close. I think it shows Toney's ceiling and if McCullm was indeed past his best, well... McCullum was 35 for the first fight. He might be correct. To answer you question I think GGG would have KO'd/TKO'd Tiberi who was below GGG's average title opponent in less than 5 rounds. Do you think Sam Peter was a good boxer? Well on PED's Toney lost on points to him...twice.
The thing is you can’t have an honest and objective debate with this guy.I do not know what is wrong with him really.
Well for one McCallum is not as good as GGG. Two he was 35 and past his prime, yet almost beat a prime James Toney under 30.Two is a fact you must accept. The Canelo that GGG fought is > than the 35 year old McCallum. Nunn outboxed Toney. GGG has a fine jab, could do the same and has a much better chin. Toney had some come from being KO's didn't he. See my post #260. Toney's Slickness didn't help him vs Jones or Tiberi. See my post #260, its a bit of an eye opener. Also don't talk to be about honest debates you run from them when I ask questions. Canelo who GGG beat past his prime always comes up from his detractors, yourself included. You don't see my crying about it. If you want a debate, this is the pace for it. Did I mention see post #260? Loudon is a pretty good poster, let's see his retort. -M
I think you would be able to shredder even Ali’s record. There is really no point carrying on these discussions with you.And you haven been told by numerous posters to leave the Tiberi fight out because it is a dishonest point. Nun and Jones carry no similarities with GGG.Ill advised points, not to mention Nunn got KOd by Toney! You are just all over the place.McCallum has a better record than GGG so I do not know why you think GGG is a.better fighter.Plus again, they both have different styles. now Now obviously I could go on and shredder GGG’s record but what is the point of having debates like this.It is always the same every time with you,
GG would never have dropped a fight to Tiberi on his best day. But what about just 7 weeks after he’d fought Canelo or Jacobs? That is the equivalent of what Toney did. Toney had fought 5 fights in 9 months. He’d fought Nunn, Reggie and Mike all within that period. Three top level fighters. We do not know if GG could have beaten all of those guys within a 9 month period. We don’t even know if he could have beaten them all at all. You are not allowing for the circumstances of the time. James beating Mike was very impressive, as Mike was still an elite level fighter, having recently taken apart Micheal Watson, and also having beaten Sumbu Kalambay. If you didn’t see the fights, there’s no point in trying to debate them.
Toney was ready and in shape for this fights. No excuses! One could say the opponents were not ready to go and was older, had a longer layoff, etc... I wanted you to reply to post #260. We are not talking bait just 2 fights, but 4-5 were Toney lost or looked suspect in victory. I have seen most of Toney's fight, save McCallum and thing GGG would do better in all of them. Post #260 Hello London, I think you know your stuff, as such I look forward to your reply. Toney fans say he's this master boxer. When he fought two really good boxers at his weight, he lost the majority of the rounds big time.( Jones and Nunn ) He should have lost to Tiberi too, don't you agree? Yes or No. All three of these guys had a jab, a good one bothers Toney. GGG has more than a good jab and better power or chin than any of these men! And wasn't Toney was in serious trouble in a fight, badly cut and needed the KO, and got it, I forget who the opponent was. Can you help me out on that one. Was that the Willians fight? He was behind and got a 12 round TKO. We are talking about 4 or 5 fights here, not 2. I don't see this " Master boxer " , and these fights happened before Toney was 30 year old. AKA, his prime Also what's up with the split decision over Johnson where he was down in round two? Don't you think such a great fighter should have won via bigger margin? There is also a draw with Sanderline Williams? Who? I guess you can excuse that one was Toney was green. No hiding about his performances here. No excuses. I have not seen the draw or SD over McCullum. Do you agree that McCullum was past his best as he claimed? These fights are close. I think it shows Toney's ceiling and if McCullum indeed past his best, well... McCullum was 35 for the first fight. He might be correct. Toney did not beat a prime McCullum and had a big age advantage. To answer you question I think GGG would have KO'd/TKO'd Tiberi who was below GGG's average title opponent in less than 5 rounds. Do you think Sam Peter was a good boxer? Well on PED's Toney lost on points to him...twice.
Peter was a 250lb Heavyweight and most believe Toney outboxed him in their first fight.. Since you want to factor higher weight classes into the equation , then the Jirov fight would indicate how a fight with Golovkin would play out. Also , GGG would get battered and stopped against Sam Peter.. GGG would not even make the jump up to 168 , never mind heavyweight
Toney, who was quite possibly on PED's and not caught. Sure I think he beat a defensively and slower handed Jirov who did not hit as hard as GGG does. Who did Jirov beat again? Jirov was a better amateur than pro. The fight was closer than the official score cards indicate. For example [url]HBO[/url] unofficial scorer [url]Harold Lederman[/url], scored the fight even (113-113), and that's with a point deception by Jirov.
A Cruiser weight doesn't hit harder than a middleweight. . You have no idea what you are talking about. Who wins between Sam Peter and Golovkin?
GGG vs Jirov at 190.I favour heavily Jirov GGG vs Sam Peter at heavweight .I favour Sam Peter by KO (Even against prime GGG not a 38 old as Toney])
This thread is all kinds of silly. Prime Ggg vs Toney of the Tiberi fight. Mentions that Ggg would never lose to Tiberi even though he had a chance to move up to 168 and prove he was a great p4p fighter and instead he chooses to stick around and feast on the wasteland that was 160 until Jacobs came along and made him look ordinary. What has GGG done to prove he's anywhere near the caliber of boxer as toney? What am I missing?
