Scott Ledoux was the pride of Minnesota and a TRUE all time great. If Liston quit in his own corner against Clay he wouldn’t even make it out of the dressing room against the fighting Frenchman...
The one census which was fake and declared as a fake.Next census showed him as 20 years old 1952 and two more also. His mother said he was born in 1932 but date is unknown and she even write year on the tree on their plantation that still exist but other tree where is date was cut. Which big difference? Prime or not Martin would beat him.Martin used to beat him in his prime sparing sessions.Prime Liston lost against LHW bum Marshall and Ali twice. Every version especialy prime Quarry would maul Liston due to styles because slow sluggers are created for Quarry! Lyle,Spencer,Mathis,Foster and Shavers all mauled by Quarry and Liston style is suicidal against Quarry due to styles. Quarry beat Mac Foster badly and Foster knocked Liston few times and that's why Liston was amazed by Quarry win.
Proven fake ?!? By whom, you ? Show me proof. And show me the other Census. And what his illiterate senile mother said was irrelevant. She gave contradicting statements: once she said he was born in 1930, another time in 1928, and another time in 1932. Her words are irrelevant. And the tree on their plantation has been cut down a long time ago, otherwise this whole debate about his age would been over a long time ago. Martin never beat a prime Liston. And prime Liston was around 1958-1960. Mac Foster was a skinny LHW that failed at HW, so him losing to Quarry is irrelevant. Liston is far stronger, hits way harder and he's also more skilled than Quarry. Liston's jab alone would break Quarry's face.
He showed a lot of heart against both George and Larry. I felt so bad for his wife during the Holmes fight. Cosell was unbelievably bad during that fight imo.
Date of birth There is no official record of Liston's birth. His family's home state of Arkansas did not make birth certificates mandatory until 1965.[9] His family, but not one Charles (or Sonny) Liston, can be found in the 1930 census, and in the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old.[9][10] It has been suggested Liston himself may not have known what year he was born, as he was not precise on the matter. Liston believed his date of birth to be May 8, 1932 and used this for official purposes[10] but by the time he won the world title an aged appearance added credence to rumors that he was actually several years older.[10][11][9][12][13] One writer concluded that Liston's most plausible date of birth was July 22, 1930, citing census records and statements from his mother during her lifetime.[13] Sonny Mother was not illiterate and it is more irrelevant than what your stupid mind think. Sonny father Tobi also know how to write and he said he was born in 1932 along with his siblings. Four of them know how to write and read and remembered date.His mother had dementia in his last two years of life but during their interview he did with his son and where she talked about him was in great shape.Tobi Liston died in 1947 or 1948. Martin beat prime Liston in sparing and Ray Patterson Floyd brother also knocked Liston cold in sparing! Martin used the beat **** of prime Liston in sparing and Terrell frustrated prime Liston in sparing! Prime Liston was until Ali fight because he was in his prime when he beat Williams,Patterson twice... This shows how stupid you are stupid moronic troll! We are talking about Mac Foster huge hw not Bob Foster with same last name but they were not even relatives. Jerry Quarry 196 lbs beat Mac Foster 210 lbs by TKO at 2:05 in round 6 of 10 Standing at 6 ft 2" in height and known as "Big Mac The Knife from Fresno", Foster made his professional debut in 1966, winning his first 24 fights by knockout, and was named The Ring's Progress of the Year for 1969. Britain's Boxing Illustrated wrote, "He could certainly whack!"[citation needed] Whilst being employed as a sparring partner for Sonny Liston, Foster was reputed to have knocked down the former world champion,[3] causing Liston two days later to work Foster over during another sparring session before handlers could intervene between the two men to stop it.[4] In 1969 Foster knocked out contender Thad Spencer in the first round, and twice knocked out a past his prime Cleveland Williams. By 1970 Foster was ranked as the world's number one heavyweight contender and seemed set for a title shot, but his 24–0 winning streak came to an end when as favourite he was stopped in six rounds by the more experienced Jerry Quarry in June 1970. After the Quarry fight, Foster knocked out ageing but well rated Zora Folley in one round. In April 1972 Foster faced Muhammad Ali in Tokyo in a rare 15-round, non-title bout. Although he defied Ali's prediction of a fifth-round stoppage by lasting the distance, Foster lost a clear decision to the former champion, winning just two rounds, one round, and no rounds on the three judges' respective scorecards. Foster had never been in a professional fight longer than eight rounds before facing Ali. Foster followed up his loss to Ali with knockouts of journeymen Sam McGill and Charles Williams. He was then outpointed by Bob Stallings, Joe Bugner and Henry Clark in consecutive bouts. Foster served as George Foreman's sparring partner for Foreman's world title bout with Ken Norton in 1974. He retired from boxing in 1976 after losing his fourth consecutive decision, this time to prospect Stan Ward. Foster's final record was 30–6, with all 30 of his wins coming by knockout. We were talking about big Mac Foster huge hw with 80 inch reach not LHW Bob Foster you stupid bum!
Regarding Liston's age, you quoted wikipedia. Anyone can write on wikipedia, it ain't proof. Also, if the 1940 Census shows Sonny as being 10, it's only logical he ain't gonna be in the 1930 Census. As for Foster, my mistake, I read your post fast and didn't realize which Foster you were talking about. But he sparred an old Liston, it's not the same as if he had sparred with a prime late 50s Liston. And just cause he beat Patterson does not mean Liston was still in his prime back then.
In 1953, he told Golden Gloves officials he was born in 1932 or thereabouts. During the Kefauver hearings in 1960, his massive shoulders strained his suit coat as he leaned into a microphone and said “I was born in 1933.” As champion, he chose May 8th 1932 as his default DOB to fend off the swarming press. They scoffed. His publicity man snapped, “He’s over 21.” In the mid-sixties, when he was banned from fighting just about anywhere except Nevada and Sweden, Dan Daniel of The Ring said “he doubtless is more than 45 years of age.” Before long the Swedish press joined the chorus (“You’re 42 aren’t you?”). Sonny got fed up. Anyone, he started threatening, who doubted he was the age he claimed was calling his momma a liar. But momma only added to the confusion: “I think it was January 18th in 1932. I know he was born in January, in 1932. It was cold in January.”
The 1940 census lists the same children for the most part, plus or minus a year in age. Annie, for example, has only aged 9 years in the exactly 10 years since the 1930 enumeration. Alcora (now called Cabbie) has aged 11 years. Curtis, who we know with relative certainty was born in or very nearly in October 1929, has aged somewhere between 6 months and a year more than he should. Then comes Sonny, who is listed as Charles. He’s said to be 10. We know that’s not exactly accurate, unless Mr. and Mrs. Liston forgot they had a newborn laying around when they were asked 10 years earlier, and a premature one at that, since Curtis wasn’t even nearly 9 months old at the time.
You didn't consider when the Census was compiled. For example, if his parents were asked in the first few months of the year 1930 about their kids and Sonny was born in the second half of 1930, it's only logical they couldn't have said anything about him when he wasn't yet born. Sonny being born around mid 1930 seems very plausible to me.
The US Goverment released the 1930 US census a few years back(they could not release any census for the public until 75 years after its taken). According to his mother who was interviewed by NEWSWEEK in 1962 when he became champ. Sonny was born between Curtis and Wesley(the youngest). Actually it is the 1930 US Federal Census thats on-line over at http://www.ancestry.com. Tobin(Tobe) and Helen Liston of St.Francis Arkansas. Its been a while since Ive seen it,but if Charles"Sonny"Liston was born before 1930 he would be be listed. He was the second youngest between Curtis and Wesley according to his mother.
nlike other nuances, the mystery over Liston’s age does not come down to alleged mafia ties or cover-ups, just Great Depression-era circumstances. He was born “Charles L. Liston” sometime between 1930 and 1940 to Tobin, a dirt-poor sharecropper, and his wife Helen Liston in the town of Forrest City, Arkansas. Unfortunately there is no record of his birth because Liston was not born in a hospital and the State of Arkansas did not require mandatory birth certificates until 1965. He did file for a birth certificate for legal reasons in 1953, citing his date of birth as May 8, 1932, but the chances of that being correct are very slim. His own mother said he was born on January 8, 1932. Sometimes she said it was January 18.
I absolutely agree this sounds right .. there is no way he was 32 when he was fighting Ali .. zero ..
