Ali or Lewis is probably where I’d go followed by Louis and Liston. Then Marciano Frazier and Tyson. Holmes Foreman and Wlad to fill out the top ten h2h. 1. Ali 2 Lewis 3 Louis 4 Liston 5 Marciano 6 Frazier 7 Tyson 8 Foreman 9 Holmes 10 Wlad
I’m pretty critical of Ali, but probably. if you were to lay out a top 10 and squared them off against each other the only person I see rivalling him for the top spot is Lewis.
No, maybe top 10. 2 fighters that beat him if everyone’s prime in his era, Frazier and Norton, then you got Holmes, the klits, Holy, Lewis, fury, but I can see by the poll it’s people thinking from the heart than with their heads
That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. He beat one of them on the list even if it was out of prime. This isn’t really a Marciano thread so I’d rather not turn it into one.
I don’t think any fighter goes undefeated. Think it’s a matter of if everyone faced each other who would have the best record. Think Ali fits the bill as his competition was ridiculously better then anyone else’s. Not as far as skill necessarily but quantity of solid fighters is amazing. He demonstrated the ability to win against all different forms of fighters. With the best chin in amongst the greats as well. I also don’t think Ali was prime for Frazier and def not Norton. Beats them both on his best day.
I came up with a distinction that I think he meets which is a little weaker than #1 H2H but still good. I think he is one of a very few HWs who has at least a 1/3 chance of winning against anyone. Him and Foreman I'm sure of, there are others more debateable. Almost all the others have some style/size matchups where it's close to hopeless.
F no, not with lights out punchers who could box like dempsey and louis...ali just couldn't hit....right up there with johnson and tunney however due to his will and chin IMO
So when appraising Ali/Clay ( this a clue ) on the ATG or H2H whatever, and this has been a bug bear of mine for years, would it not be better for the questioner to stipulate which version of the fighter he is talking about , either Ali or Clay ! Only say/think that because in reality their was 2 diff type of fighters in essence, the first and earlier version, which comprised of lighting speed ( for a HW ) radar like reflexes , limitless stamina, and was very hard to tag cleanly, before you start, there was exceptions ( their all ways is ) so yes, Jones, Banks, Cooper, caught him but, after all his fights up till Foley, he was completely unmarked agreed ? Then you have the second version say from 70 to 76 ( after that mostly down hill ) which comprised of, an inhuman tolerance to pain, a chin ( be honest, we didn't dream he posed ) courage beyond the call, BUT gone were the speed, reflexes, etc, so in closing for me, the first, Clay beats all the past champions, the second Ali, might have been toppled by the, Louis, Marcianos, Dempseys, Lewis,s. Thought long and hard before putting the above together, not sure if A/ it makes sense, B/ there is no B.... Keep well.
