Just how good of a boxer was James Toney?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 4, 2020.



  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    I never called him unexceptional, you're the one who admitted to not knowing a verity of fighters mentioned in this thread, remember?

    I think Toney with the aid of steroids, and picking the right opponents was able to hang in there at heavyweight. He passed on a fight with Wlad who would have pounced him badly. No one said Toney didn't have a good chin. Anyway, in this thread I was focusing on 160-168, and not his losses at 175 or cheating at 200+, got it?
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    I am showing the forum YDKSAB. Toney up by there over Peter, and Toney the winner on your card over Oquendo?

    WHAT A JOKE YOU ARE. Oh yeah, Holyfield over Lewis too, and later changed it to a draw as the Lewis cane out and mocked you. :nonono

    Are you ever going to tell us who you felt win between GGG and Canlo 1, or have I make you scorecards disappear forever. I think the later is likely true, at least for you.

    No one of my points on Toney made in post #1 are you going to talk about.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,101
    41,915
    Mar 3, 2019
    I want to know why you constantly call out others for not replying to you but then you don't reply to me or McGrain.

    I'd also like to know why, after every effort you've made to belittle Toney is every aspect, you think he's top 25 at MW. After all, you don't give him credit for Nunn. You think he lost to Tiberi. You think he lost to an old McCallum. You also think he needed corrupt decisions over Sosa and Reggie. If he only has one win of note, and you think it's against an old McCallum, why do you have him top 25 at middleweight?

    And you're right, I don't think Toney is a top 25 middleweight. That's because I know a lot more about the middleweight division than you do. You're also right, that I don't have Kid Chocolate top 150 P4P. Where are your lists? Top 25 middleweight? Top 150 P4P?
    :lol:

    It's absolutely hilarious that you think one opinion, which is quite common, means none of my other opinions matter. Over the years you've had so many pathetic and hilariously stupid opinions that would signal to mental health issues on your part.

    You think Golovkin and Cerdan are top ten middleweights. So excuse me for laughing. Excuse me for not reading your post.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    Well I am speaking to multiple fans boys at the same time. My time is limited. I don't think you or McGrain are in their class as fanboys, though you try to jump on the pile at times.

    You don't think Toney is a top 25 middle. You had no idea who Kid Chocolate is, and I doubt you know much about Cerdan. You are a teenager, correct? Or maybe 20-21.. Maybe someday this will change. Yes I think Cerdan is a top 10 middle weight, lots of people older and wiser the you agree. The IBRO which maybe you should join to learn also sees Cerdan as a top 10 middle.

    I am saying Toney wasn't a great boxer, and showing why. I added up the rounds won to round lost vs the best he fought at 160-168, and came up with MINUS 16 down on points using the middle judge and allowing for ANY Toney fan boy to give their score on Tiberi vs Toney. Very fair.

    Had Toney done better vs Jones, Nunn, Tiberi and the rest, I sure would score those rounds for him, BUT HE DIDN'T. I think he deserve credit for beating Nunn but I also think Nunn exposed him big time and would have won the re-match. Toney did not give re-matches, to Nunn, Tiberi, or Johnson. Hmmmm..... But sure he'll fight an again man in McCallum again. I scored Toney vs McCallum 1, For McCallum by 1 round. McCallum was up on points and punches landed ( by a large margin ) After round 11. Toney won the 12th big, but it was not enough. One judge gave Toney 10-8 on that round, so he would be the " winner " on his card. We already went over Tiberi out worked Toney. I saw zero effort on Toney vs Jones to risk what he must. I think he's a thug, and a racists, YOU forgive for being one. Do you realize what you are saying? I hope that changes as you wise up.

    Yes I think GGG is a top top 25 all time middleweight. Like I said kid he will be in the hall of fame on his first try.

    My knowledge on boxing greatly exceeds yours. I was a participant, have seen hundreds of more fights than you gave and have some semi rare stuff on film. I've also been watching and sometimes writing on boxing for over 40 years, which is probably double your age.

    Who are you? A teenager with a big mouth. Yep. You have a lot to learn. I think you can, but if you come at with showing yoru ignorance, I sure can serve it back to you. :D In other threads you are fine.
     
  5. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

    1,144
    852
    Jul 7, 2012
    He had good run in a very weak heavyweight division.
     
  6. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,101
    41,915
    Mar 3, 2019
    Correct.
    How on earth did you gather this? I've known who Chocolate was since before I was on this board.
    Your doubt is misplaced.
    Yes. 17.
    Yes, that's how the aging process works.
    No. No they don't. Older, and thicker. Not wiser.
    Why would I join a group who feels Cerdan is a top 10 middleweight. That'd be sinking down to your level and I'm afraid I'm worth more than that.
    I know, there's only been 120 pages of it :lol:
    I've responded to this in full, in a post you refuse to reply to because you know it's accurate and destroys this strange anti-Toney agenda you have. It's weird, it almost borders on propaganda.
    Just less ths GGG does for beating an ancient Kassim Ouma :lol:
    Sure you do. Because you're an entirely unbias source.
    I've already explained this too. It's flat out wrong, but you refuse to learn and change.
    Yes, the actual blemish on his record. It doesn't take a rocket scientist....
    Incorrectly.
    Punch stats are bull****. And it was only not enough on your card. It was enough on others.
    You do realise that this would have been a draw either way, right? Whether he had it even, or a Toney win, is irrelevant.

    And I don't suppose you'd ever consider this, but maybe he just thought it was worthy of being a two point round.

    I don't know why you're talking like Toney was a massive draw which needed protecting. He was completely unknown headed into the Nunn fight, and he was no superstar before McCallum.
    Based on those quotes? LOL I think you need to learn what racism is, coz that wasn't it.
    No, I just understand that he isn't one.
    Yes. I'm much more capable of understanding basic English than you.
    I appreciate the sentiment. Likewise, I hope you one day can understand Boxing. Even if it's on just a basic level, the leaps and bounds that you'll have come by then can only be rewarding.
    Wrong.
    That would be delightful news, for someone who cares.
    :loel:

    Sure thing mate.
    Same.
    Again, delightful news for someone who cares.
    It is, more than. Which just makes it even sadder how far out of your depth you are when conversing with me.
    Yes.

    Who are you? An old man with a big mouth.

    I know which one I'd rather be.
    Likewise.
    Thanks for validation.

    Can't say the same for you.
     
  7. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,343
    4,038
    Jul 14, 2009
    You just score every close fight against Toney.Therefore there is no sense in debating scores with you. And you haven’t answer my question which I asked first.
     
  8. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

    4,313
    3,474
    Jun 28, 2009
    :sifone:
     
    JohnThomas1 and George Crowcroft like this.
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    108,011
    38,444
    Mar 21, 2007
    Thread is a ****ing car crash. Mendoza been lapped so many times he thinks he's winning.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    [QUOTE="George Crowcroft, post: 20764648, member: 120441"

    Based on those quotes? LOL I think you need to learn what racism is, coz that wasn't it.
    .[/QUOTE]


    Look Kid you're okay sometimes, but your comments are out of order and your understanding of the fighters need a lot of work.

    I'm going to keep it short by saying your thinking Toney is cool excuses his racists mouth. That should change as you age. He's also a drug cheat and a crybaby type at times.
    This content is protected


    [url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/james-toney-vs-the-best-middleweights-super-middle-weights-of-the-past-50-years-excluding-active.656246/page-3#post-20676352[/url]

    ^^^ There you have it George, I quoted you own words. This option on Toney to me is worse than you not having in in the top 25 at middleweight.

    Also, I'm not that old. I prefer to think middle aged thank you very much. Until then its not comparison who knows more about boxing, in and out of the ring. Check back in say oh 20 years, okay.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    Nah, Not keeping score. Just having fun with fanboys.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    Which fights are you talking about? I think Toney lost vs Tiberi, Peter and Oquendo. This is the correct view Blade. If you want to start a separate thread, and compare score cards on these three fights, let's do it. Run Blade run.

    We know your scorecards are jokes. I'm just going to repeat some of them when they are out of line.

    I also think McCallum edged Toney in he first fight, and score it round by round with NO issues raised here. I never said Toney did not beat Johnson, only that he did not offer him, and Nunn a re-match. So your theory that I score every close fight against Toney is false,

    DUH.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    108,011
    38,444
    Mar 21, 2007
    Can I see your scorecard for the Oquendo fight?
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,264
    Jun 29, 2007
    I saw it live, and it was a clear robbery. I do not have a round by round card, that fight was a while ago, and not that significant.

    I've seen 1,000's of fights, you can ask me who I think won anytime, but I do not have 1,000's of scorecards.

    You have a way of making what many people call robberies into close fights. I have noticed that. For example, you felt GGG vs Canelo 1 was a draw, correct?

    Some of my scorecards can be seen in the classic forum, others the general forum.

    Here's one for a sample

    Holmes vs. Cooney, fresh eyes

    My Scorecard:

    rd 1 ) 10-9 - Holmes round
    rd 2 ) 10-8 - Knockdown, Cooney hurt, makes it out of the round as he was down late
    rd 3 ) 9-10 - Cooney's round
    rd 4 ) 9-10 - Cooney Round's, Holmes hurt with a body shot late
    rd 5 ) 10-10 - An even round
    rd 6) 10-9 - Holmes round, landing more often and cleaner
    rd 7 ) 10-9 - Cooney cut over the eye, Holmes right punching scoring
    rd 8 ) 9-10 - Good action round, perhaps Cooney's best round
    rd 9 ) 10-8 - Hard Low blow, point taken, Holmes glove might have steered Cooney's head downwards.
    rd 10 ) 10-9 Good action round, I gave it to Holmes
    rd 11 ) 10- 9 - Clearly Holmes
    rd 12 ) 10-9 - Clearly Holmes, Cooney still game
    rd 13 ) All Holmes Cooney's legs are gone. TKO

    Observation on Holmes. He had some trouble with Cooney's body shots and height, but showed tremendous recuperations power to the head body and even after being hit with a hard low blow. Holmes jab and right hand and jab were good. Cooney kept coming forward. His guard was lower, to protect against those body shots. When Holmes was on his toes, the fight was easy for him. He also had a corner edge, with Ray Arcel. Larry fought a economical fight, and stayed off the ropes. There was little clinching.

    Observation on Cooney: He was more durable than given credit for and had heart. Holmes, who I would call a solid hitter, landed some clean right hands. Cooney took most of them well. Cooney's problem was he was stiff with no head movement and lacked a straight right when he needed one. He did have Holmes hurt for a second or two to the head and body, but Holmes was too durable and recuperated well. Still, Cooney proved he could give Holmes a competitive fight and, in hindsight, deserved his #1 ranking.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    108,011
    38,444
    Mar 21, 2007
    Here is the problem. You are attacking this guy over and over again of his scoring of a fight. You've been attacking his scorecards ceaselessly. To me, even if he's wrong, he still has more right to talk about the subject and share his opinion than you. All these fights where you are so sure Toney lost - I suspect you haven't scored any of them. You've refused repeatedly to produce scorecards for many of them. Now this vague **** about "fight was a while ago" and "not that signficiant.

    That's all accurate. The problem is you aren't acting like either of these things are true. You are acting like an expert on the fight. But you haven't put a scorecard out there. You haven't defended your position with any risk. You literally just google "James Toney boxrec", scroll to the Oquendo fight, click in the "Wiki" entry, copy and paste the information into this thread over and over again and use it to attack a live scorecard.

    It's pathetic.

    It's also atrocious etiquette. If you want to attack a scorecard, produce a scorecard. If you don't want to produce a scorecard, leave the scorecard belonging to another poster alone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020