I don't think he makes the top5. He dominated decent fighters, not excellent ones. His jab is the 3rd greatest in HW division IMO
His reign was short, and his resume is very thin I think. Based on that I can't rank him THAT high personally. He looks good on film, but against whom? Albert Westphal? The Patterson wins are startlingly good though, even if Floyd was intimidated and a bit chinny. He beat Patterson about as conclusively as a hammer beats a nail.
The top 2 are set in stone. The only real pound for pound all timers among Heavyweights (excluding those who moved up in weight later in their careers). They’re pretty much in their own category. With that said, among all the rest, you think Liston has a case for best of all time?
I don't rank him necessarily this high. A reasonable case can be made. I might have him 8-10 depending on the day.
I used to think he was a top 10 Heavy, but I agree with Mendoza (imagine that) that his ranking has probably taken a hit since then. I’ve also just never really been into Heavyweights. On paper I can’t see it at all (though I’m open to being educated), so it comes down to his ability/head to head potential and how important that is for you. And again, that would seem to be one of the main reasons why his status has taken a hit over the years. Not only is he no longer a great physical specimen, he’s actually on the lower end now. So you’d have to think incredibly highly of his power, chin and technique.
See, with him that's a slippery slope. Head to head really can only be translated from results against good fighters and the list of names on his ledger gives you less to go on than many others.
Looking at resumes I'd have Ali, Louis, Holmes, Lewis, Johnson, Wlad, Tyson, Rocky, Frazier, Charles, Foreman and probably Jeffries ahead of him. So what's that? 13. So maybe can see him just squeeze into the top 10 resume wise, but probably not. H2H... Seems to me like you can argue for anyone you like more or less with this criteria, so take a pick.
That's a very good point indeed. On the flip side you can only be measured by who is around in your era. Just hard to measure all around. My way if thinking is put Liston in a ring with let's just say L. Lewis. Lewis has the resume the size and what not but I still think Liston stops him. And hold on guys I'm not turning this into a Liston v Lewis thread I just picked his name as a good example of my mindset here.
