Canelo Alvarez or Andre Ward: Who rates higher all-time?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by SquaredCircle, Dec 19, 2020.



Who rates higher historically?

  1. Andre Ward

    28.3%
  2. Canelo Alvarez

    71.7%
  1. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Froch?
     
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  2. ElCyclon

    ElCyclon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're trying to preach to the choir. Read my post again.
     
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  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I cant lie though, Canelos resume absolutely dwarfs Wards :lol:

    imo it seems to come down to 3 things.

    - How highly you rate the Froch, Kessler, and Kova wins.
    - What fights in Canelos highly debatable legacy you have him losing. Plently of credible people have him losing Golovkin 1, Golovkin 2, Lara, and Trout. I have even seen the Cotto and Jacobs fights as draws. You can imagine, if youre someone that has him losing quite a few of those, his legacy is completely different.
    - How badly you hold Canelos losses against him. If youre in the majority, you had him losing to a 35 year old, on the slide Golovkin, in Canelos prime.

    Its an interesting comparison. Doesnt feel right rating Ward over him, if Im honest, given the depth of Canelos resume.
     
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  4. ElCyclon

    ElCyclon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ward was one for his era, when it's all said and done Canelo may end up being one for the ages.
     
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  5. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

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    How did i forget about froch
     
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  6. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Wild Buffalo Man banned Full Member

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    Thank you. Huge gap in achievements between the two
     
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  7. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

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    Its definitely Canelo though.
     
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  8. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If you want to talk about losses that weren't losses but decisions that many people disagreed with, you have to include Ward's "loss" to Kovalev in this discussion. Canelo's performance vs Golovkin the first time was much better than Ward's performance vs Kovalev the first time. Many thought Ward lost to Kovalev, and remember he was knocked down. Even if you somehow thought GGG deserved that decision, I don't see how you could say that Ward deserved that decision over Kovalev more than Canelo deserved the first decision over GGG.

    Early on Ward looked like a deer in headlights against Kovalev, the way he was knocked down, he had fear in his eyes like he was about to lose. Now Ward dug down deep and turned it around and eeked out that decision in controvrsial fashion, but compared to how Canelo was easily outboxing GGG early on, he performed much better vs GGG the first time than Ward did vs Kovalev the first time. As to the argument that Kovalev was prime when he fought Ward and GGG wasn't when Canelo fought him, if you watched Kovalev's match with Isaac Chilemba he struggled mightedly vs Chilemba. Many point to GGG's performance vs Jacobs and the fact that it went the distance as a sign that GGG was slowing down and no longer in his prime, but the same could be said about Kovalev's performance vs Chilemba. That went the distance and Jacobs was seen as a much better fighter than Chilemba was. So you can make the same argument that Kovalev was already showing signs of slowing down prior to fighting Ward as GGG was prior to fighting Canelo. Also, Kovalev is certifiably chinny at this point, while GGG isn't. GGG is holding up much better at an advanced age than Kovalev is. Many claim that Kovalev is completely shot now, while many don't say the same with GGG. They might not consider GGG prime any more but he's surely closer to his prime than Kovalev is. GGG doesn't have the kind of bad habits that Kovalev has - drinking, beating up women, kicking dogs, etc.
     
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  9. bsCallout

    bsCallout New Member Full Member

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    I love Canelo. He is an incredible fighter but . . .

    There are just too many question marks over his fights.

    You have the GGG, Lara, Trout fights, and like another poster mentioned the Cotto and Jacobs fights. All highly questionable results.

    Then you have WHEN he has fought certain fighters and under what conditions.

    You have his catch weight limits and/or short notice fights (particularly against guys who weight cut), you have Kovalev who was finished before he got to Canelo. Then you have 'clever' picks such as adding a chinny Amir Khan to your resume when you've brought him up in weight.

    The names on the resume are great, the reality of those 'wins' individually make them highly, highly questionable.

    Then you have his PED use. I find it hard to understand why he gets a free ride with boxing fans despite his obvious cheating.

    And despite all that, I, like others, can't help but admire his skill and toughness.

    But to me, he'll never go down in my ATG books because there are just too many question marks around his results and career.
     
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  10. Dannymita

    Dannymita Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd rate canelo over ward... But canelo should have a few more losses.... N ward should have one as well

    One thing in wards favour... He didn't get busted for peds
     
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  11. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    @bsCallout You're just a hater man. The PED use is total BS, trace amounts of clen isnt even a PED violation any more since the contaminated meat problem is recognized as a real problem in Mexico. The cherry picking or "clever" timing argument is just absurd. Compared to the kind of tactics Mayweather used late in his career to stack the deck against his opponents, allowing him to get wins, Canelo has done nothing even close to as bad as what Mayweather did to him or to Pacquiao.
     
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  12. drenlou

    drenlou Tres Delinquentes Full Member

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    Only near questionable fights that are still debated today are Lara and the first GGG fight. But whoever won is purely your opinion.
     
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  13. bsCallout

    bsCallout New Member Full Member

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    I'm not a hater at all. I love Canelo like I said.

    There are just too many question marks over his career for me to put him in my ATG great list.

    In regards to the PED use, don't kid yourself.

    I agree with you on the Mayweather points, that doesn't make them not true for Canelo though.
     
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  14. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What PED use? Trace amounts of Clenbuterol? It's a fat burner. It's not like he was taking steroids or something.
     
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  15. bsCallout

    bsCallout New Member Full Member

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    I guess on the scope of questionable i'm including the weight limits, the scoring and the short notice fights, there are just too many question marks for me over his actual wins.

    His skill cannot be questioned, I just personally cannot ignore those questions I have for so many of his fights. It taints the picture in my eyes.

    I won't argue with people rating him so highly though. I get it.
     
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