Canelo fights fixed?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Mark Liang, Dec 20, 2020.


  1. Fluffyfists

    Fluffyfists Fluffyfists Full Member

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    The past 2 fights against Kovalev and Smith make no sense. Both guys had clear size, reach, height advantages, but then proceeded to:
    1. Back pedal and be chased around by a smaller man
    2. Barely throw any punches, and rarely load up on any punches (completely contrary to their usual style)
    3. Barely move and act as stationary targets

    The Kovalev fight was more suspect. Kovalev was just pecking at Canelo with these "jabs" for 11 rounds before being a sitting target for a power punch. After the KO, Canelo barely seemed surprised and told the crowd to calm down right away.

    The Smith fight appeared less suspect ... on first glance. But it made no sense how: (1) Canelo was literally in Smith's chest, side-by-side, and looked almost like he was climbing up a tree, and Smith was just covering up rather than making any effort to maintain distance or respect; (2) Smith would never counter (which is his signature) but would instead let Canelo bomb away for several punches before throwing a few harmless punches; (3) Smith barely moved and just let himself be hit along the ropes; (4) Canelo barely had to use any footwork and just walked down Smith and would throw these long, wound up wide punches, fully loaded up that you could see/anticipate from a mile away and like he knew Smith wouldn't do anything in return (Canelo was even standing during breaks in later rounds).

    In both fights, Smith/Kovalev and Canelo would give each other props at the end of each round. And Smith was even laughing during R12.

    Canelo is a good fighter and all, but the two fights against Smith/Kovalev didn't feel like real fights. In both, by the mid-rounds, it felt off -- like neither Smith/Kovalev wanted to fight and Canelo seemed to know that based on the fact that he kept coming forward. Both Smith/Kovalev looked like they were in sparring/exhibitions and just waiting to get hit, while trying to throw some harmless punches to make it look interesting. Combine that with the fact that Canelo is a money-making machine -- it leads to too many questions.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Shrollleftupper

    Shrollleftupper Active Member banned Full Member

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    Your excuses about the Callum fight are just excuses, Callum did the exact same things against Ryder. Kovalev DID throw big shots, but he was countered hard at every turn, which made him go back to throwing light shots. No excuses!
     
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  3. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    Three things tend make fighters timid.

    - When they cant get a fix on their target, their output drops.

    - When the speed of their opponent is making them wary to throw.

    - When the power of their opponent is making them wary to throw.


    Maybe Canelos starting to hit harder than people are giving him credit for, and the combination of an elusive target coming forward throwing home run bombs and counters at a good speed is making bigger fighters keep their hands at home.
     
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  4. Fluffyfists

    Fluffyfists Fluffyfists Full Member

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    1. "fix on their target" -- Canelo wasn't moving his feet; just walking straight at Smith. He has a bit of head movement, but usually only after Smith threw 1-2 punches and Canelo knew to go on the defensive. (This is part of what bothered me; there were no trades of bunches; Canelo would throw 5-8 punches unanswered, then Smith would throw 2-4 soft punches; it was like they were taking turns)

    2. "speed" -- Canelo is fast at 168. But did you see the punches he was throwing? By the midrounds, they were all long winding haymakers that you could see/anticipate, especially given Canelo's prior patterns

    3. "power" -- hard to tell, though Canelo was throwing hard once it became apparent Smith was not going to throw anything back. That said, if Canelo is coming up in weight, shouldn't Smith at least try to throw some power in return to see if Canelo could take them. Smith went into this saying he's too big for Canelo -- then he spends most of the fight backing away from a midget
     
  5. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, Callum looked even more pathetic against Ryder - so his timid showing against a much better fighter like Canelo was hardly surprising!
     
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  6. fitzroy boy_iron mike

    fitzroy boy_iron mike Active Member Full Member

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    I made a thread just like this but it was locked.

    I agree- very strange fights. If Smith (taller longer guy) had held Canelo (inside expert) at least a FEW times it would have made a lot of sense. Has he not seen Klitschko fight smaller guys for example... And the kov fight was a spar. It's almost as if there were stipulations made. But hey it is what it is
     
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  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Fixed? No.

    Heavily stacked? Yes.

    Canelo is already a great fighter and I find it sad that he needs to resort to every kind of trick to make sure he wins, be it weight games, short camps, rehydration clauses, PEDs, stacked wraps, favourable judges etc. It puts a question mark on what he's done imho.
     
  8. gollumsluvslave

    gollumsluvslave Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I can see why folks might think that maybe about Kov, but forget about Ryder, and go back and watch the Smith vs Skoglund fight - Smith was getting lit up like a Christmas tree, but because Skoglund didn't hit very hard and didn't have a tight defense, Mundo was able to eke out a win.

    But IMO he is one of the most basic and limited 168 champs I can recall. Prime Groves and Degale both beat Smith quite easily let alone Froch or Calzaghe.

    On paper, yes this is a great win for Canelo and great for his resume - and take nothing away from him, he did look great. But I think when you look into it in more detail it's not one of Canelo's better wins.

    One other thing to maybe note about Canelo, is that maybe now, 168 is a pretty natural weight for him, and his natural tendency to gas/ have stamina issues (which i've seen at 154 and 160) was nowhere against Smith - of course, that's probably more easily explained that Smith did not force his tempo on Canelo, but still worth considering.
     
  9. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Yep Smith just isn't that good. He looks good at first glance with his size and sound fundamentals but you really break down his style, no head movement, basic high guard defence which is the guard adopted by fighters with no head movement, wide stance, doesn't move much, gives up his height by crouching down and gives up his reach by trading at mid range, he simply doesn't fight like a tall rangy fighter should which should tell anyone knowing what they are looking at that Smith isn't that good, decent but will always get dominated at the top level.

    Smith is basically Nathan Cleverly 2.0, bigger but not actually any better, maybe worse. As you say his skill set is so basic, other than size he's not exceptional in any way. In terms of British super middleweight world champions he doesn't rank very highly at all.
     
  10. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Neither of them were going to take the fight to him, it's not their real style both are better at mid range to long range and going right at Canelo suits Canelo usually as he's the better inside fighter and a natural counter puncher, walking right at him is usually a recipe to get KO'ed unless you have GGG's chin.

    Yes they didn't throw much, that's because Canelo is elusive and he punishes you with counters if you miss or even if you land so that makes fighters more hesitant to throw as they know it exposes them to a counter.

    Smith as never been a mover, he always stands right in front of his opponents even giving up his reach a lot of the time. Just watch the Ryder fight, Ryder didn't even need to work his way in at times, he's just walk forward and there was Smith ready to be hit.

    Kovalev is a better mover than Smith and we saw that in his fight with Canelo, he often was circling, moving laterally but he's never going to be the type that uses a ton of movement like BJS or Hopkins. Kova is a puncher, his mindset is that of a puncher so he always wants to be just out of range where he can be in a position to throw a KO punch at any time so of course he's going to be in front of Canelo a lot of the time, though he is usually circling he just won't look to do hit and run tactics that isn't who he is as a fighter.
     
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  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I think if Canelo is that good that his fights now looked fixed, that says more about his abilities than anything else.
     
  12. travolt

    travolt Trolling the trolls Full Member

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    To answer your question:
    Is the Pope a catholic ?
     
  13. Skins

    Skins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why would they have to fix a fight against a scrub like Smith?
     
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  14. Stiff Jab

    Stiff Jab Despiser of Super-Middleweights Full Member

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    Only 'fixed' in the sense of careful matchmaking and risk/reward management, which has been a thing in combat sports since there were combat sports. It's okay not to like it, but let's not pretend Canelo is the first or most guilty of doing this.
     
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  15. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    No, Smith was just the perfect style for Canelo to look good against, as I correctly stated in my prediction. Saunders and possibly Plant is where you will see struggle.
     
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