Thats really something to keep in mind. Two extremely successful and one-sided fights might have lead to him not train as hard as he did before. But regardless of the fight length and Clay giving away rounds in Miami due to dancing, the fight was so onesided with Clay in control of everything, that there isn´t much benefit of the doubt to give here. I don´t believe he was older than 33 in 1964, also because of fighting pretty often after 1968. Moreover, Listons top H2H accomplishments to use are over 2 fighters with very dubious durability, one of them 25lb lighter than him. We simply have no idea how a fighter like that would fare against the more typical sized Witherspoons, Bonercrushers, McCalls, Bugners, Tubbs etc. Because of that lack, I wouldn´t be confident to pick him over 74s Ali either.
Prime Liston catches and KOs Ali. In the fight as it happened in reality, Ali stated Liston had him stunned pretty bad. An old, out of shape Liston did that. Also, the rematch was fixed. Give Sonny credit, he was a head to head monster.
Sonny Liston was the best heavyweight in the world when Ali beat him. Nobody around then was better. Nobody was close. Sonny had just beat Patterson twice. And Floyd had been the best guy since 1956. The odds for the first fight reflect how highly regarded Sonny was. There had been no visible decline in recent fights.
Sonny Liston was the best heavyweight in the world when Ali beat him. Nobody was better. Nobody was close. Sonny had just beat Patterson twice. And Floyd had been the best guy since 1956.
Yeah, the revisionism that goes on in this thread is just crazy in some instances. But people will tell themselves anything to prop up their hero.
But there really hadn't been any recent fights. He'd seen a few minutes of ring action in the previous 3 years. Less than 6 rounds in over 3 years. 1961 : TKO3 Howard King, KO1 Albert Westphal 1962: KO 1 Patterson 1963: KO 1 Patterson
Agreed but the bigger issue was Liston's lack of preparation and condition. He was in no shape to defend the heavyweight crown. He was hardly in 3 round shape. Sonny was banking on a 1st round KO. He put all his eggs in that basket.
In all seriousness though, that's just Choklab being Choklab. He will do anything to make Liston look bad (then play dumb when called out on it). Liston had fought 13 minutes in 3 years... on top of that he was at best in his mid 30s (likely much older) suffering from bursitis, out of shape, and coming into the bout with a recorded shoulder injury. Safe to say he wasn't at his best...
I'm not sure ho much past his physical prime Liston was, but his best performances were behind him, imo. Liston was dynamite in his previous 2 fights v Patterson but they were his last 2 "great" performances. There are reasons why I believe his best performances were behind him, some have already been mentioned in this thread. 1) Inactivity; you just can't have 6 rounds of action in 3 years and be at your sharpest; especially against a sharp, young, unorthodox non-textbook guy with the unique skill-set that Ali possessed. Especially when those 6 rounds largely consisted of the same work required to hit the heavy bag or pad-work; little reflexes required, just throw your combinations and watch your opponents fall down. Your body is not used to the trauma of being hit, not used to fighting many rounds, as the fight wears on you deteriorate, you're not battle hardened. Further, it's very difficult, even at your best, to deal with the unique style & skill-set that Ali possessed. Before you've worked the style and patterns of unique, unorthodox opponents, you can already be several rounds down, or worse still - beaten. 2) Motivation; ever since winning the title, being "The Champ" apparently was not what Liston thought it was cracked up to be before he won the title, his motivation apparently diminished when he returned home after winning the title and no civic reception was waiting for him. 3) Lifestyle; Liston's well known dabbling with drink & women was no preparation for world class heavyweight boxing. 4) Injuries and physical wear & tear; self explanatory really. So, was Liston "past it" when he fought Ali? Yes, imo.
