I'd be curious to know what fights you think Tyson would have won by relying on his jab more? Over a 17 year period (lets not include his last two fights which were meaningless, i'll include Lewis as it was a big name fight) he only lost to Douglas, Holyfield x 2 and Lewis. I remember Douglas slipping plenty of the more serious jabs he threw. Often when he jabbed coming in Douglas defused the attack with interest. Douglas had a full foot of reach on him and half a foot of height. Lewis had even more than that on him and Tyson was declined as well. Tyson threw 134 jabs against Lewis and landed just 20. I'm not overly sold on compubox and the likes but it's telling. Perhaps you are talking about the Holyfield fights. I think Holyfield would have would have adjusted quite easily but am open to insights. Foreman only lost to Ali and Young first career and i can't imagine anything helping him against Ali as Ali would have adapted on the fly. If he threw more jabs and measured his punches better Ali would have wore less and peppered more. People forget Foreman landed enough brutal body blows (combined with the odd bomb to the head) to beat possibly anyone in history. He would have thought he was on a winning strategy. Young IMO was lost because he actually wasn't aggressive enough. They were actually working on more boxing, jabbing and pacing but on this day against this opponent it wasn't enough. By the time he had Young out on his feet he didn't have enough in the tank to finish him. Again, i am open to thoughts.
I always thought Tyson’s jab was kinda useless, if he was already in range to punch at his height he might as well have thrown a power punch
It was anything but useless in his overall framework. I am just not convinced more use of it would have won him any of the fights above. Where it could be crucial is that it could help set up his bombs. What it did was throw a little variation into the mix so they couldn't totally sit on the power punches. It also landed hard and clean at times and wouldn't have been overly pleasant to wear. He threw some very good jabs coming in when they were looking (and he didn't overuse it enough for guys to get much of a read) for power punches. Due to the short range he threw it from (and no overuse) and the threat of wider bombs it quite often landed and it was laden with power as well which is why it stands out to people and you often see it noted. He could slip a jab to the outside and pop in with his own from a safe position while looking to set up his right hand. He could throw it from a crouch at an upward angle as well. He actually dropped Holmes by using the jab to create the opening for a huge right hand. He'd also hammered him early with a right hand after jabbing Holmes and pulling his left arm down in the follow thru/recoil. It was quite a big part of his offense.
I suppose. I never had any issue believing the things he said. I can usually tell the difference between someone with knowledge/experience and someone just talking ****.
He sounded believable but then some inconsistencies crept into his story. First off he never turned pro then he started talking about how he struggled after turning pro from the amateurs. There was more than that but that’s the first one that raised questions. One poster on here called him on it and he disappeared straight away. He was a good guy but I’m not sold that what he said was gospel.
Fair enough but Classic is a lot more easy going (especially back then) than Aussie was. The rubbish thrown Flash Malcolms way was disgusting. No wonder that forum got closed down as it was full of nut jobs and arseholes. I thought I’d worked out who Magna was on a few occasions only for him to move the goal posts yet again re details about himself. I remember John Scully and Darnell Wilson posted on this site and got treated with respect so I think his running from a challenge was a bit of an overreaction tbh but everyone is different I suppose.
I think the secret to that is footwork and timing. If you have a really heavy jab you need to shuffle and almost hop forward to land a follow up right hand. The combined force of the right hand+you accelerating forward with weight behind it is devastating and theoretically the most powerful combination in boxing. The timing has to be on point so that it's a true 1-2 and not merely two big punches spread apart. Of course you also have to be defensively responsible and make sure you don't get nailed by a counter. High risk, extremely high reward.
Right, I think I see what you mean. If you step in with the jab, then as you drop onto the left foot you can literally catapult yourself into the right hand. Really devastating example of putting your whole body into a punch.
A strong 1-2 is definitely one of the more potent combinations in boxing but I'm not sure that'd I consider it high risk. I think the risk is about average compared to most punches that are thrown as more than one at a time. If the jab lands and pushes the opponent backwards, then the steps and punches need to done fluidly and in coordination for both to land flush. If the jab lands and knocks the opponent back but the follow up right misses due to a range/timing difference I don't think the risk of a meaningful counter would be super high because the victim isn't exactly set either. Obviously there's a risk but a jab that powerful likely would have been the punctual event of whatever exchange was going to happen. If the jab makes contact in some way as the thrower moves in but the opponent doesn't get pushed back then it's most likely both the extension of the right hand or whatever counter the receiver throws would be smothered by the rapid close of distance.
George Foreman and Sonny Liston are the heavyweight standouts for strong jabs that clearly move their opponents physically. Ike Quartey and Marvin Hagler had exceptionally strong jabs at welter and middle respectively. Winky Wright had a pretty stiff jab as well.
