I do this thread every so often. It's a thread for fighters you've seen enough good footage of to regard them the greatest fighter you've seen. Not looking for guys with 2 minutes of grainy footage who one somehow convinces themselves they are looking at the greatest. Some decent potential proof is needed. Happy for guys who have limited footage at a certain weight but quite a bit at others to be envisioned at the other weight. Good examples might be somewhat footage of SRR at 147 and Charles at 175. Feel free to expand as much as you want to or don't want to on your choices. Feel free to add honorable mentions if you want to tho it would be good if you could nominate one guy and not two or more at the top. If you are mad keen do a list of five but again try to have a top dawg. Do them all at once, do a weight or two when you have time, whatever. The main thing is have a top dawg in the division and make sure there is ample footage. Feel free to do cruiserweight and have Marciano/Dempsey et al considered or if you feel strong enough slap them at heavyweight.
Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali (1964-67) or Lennox Lewis (1997-00). It pains me to say Lennox but I put him pretty damn high H2H with his mix of size, skill, power, strength, and athleticism. Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield. I think Rocky Marciano would have been too small for a lot of great (and some not so great) heavyweights in history but he would have been a force at cruiserweight. Light Heavyweight: Michael Spinks. Bob Foster is up there too, and I think a match between the two of them is 50/50. Roy Jones is also up there, I don’t think his chin was always as bad as it became, but I still have him being a slight to mild underdog against Spinks and Foster. Spinks’s versatility makes me put him tentatively at the top. Not enough footage of Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles that I’ve seen to put them at the top. Most of the Moore stuff I’ve seen was when he was an old man (first Durelle fight is one of the greatest fights ever) Super Middleweight: Roy Jones. The absolutely easiest choice for me to pick. Middleweight: Marvin Hagler. A versatile guy who would box and brawl, fight from either stance, heavy hands, very accurate, great jab and combos, solid defense, iron chin, great conditioning and desire to win. I know the loss to Willie Monroe was not controversial, but all the other losses he had, I thought he won or drew. I had him beating Boogaloo, drawing with Leonard, and also beating Vito in that draw. Most of the Sugar Ray Robinson fights I’ve seen of him were past his prime, after his first retirement following the Joey Maxim fight. In earlier fights at 160 (Jake LaMotta 6 and Rocky Graziano), he looked excellent for the most part. He took more jabs from LaMotta than I expected, but then unleashed all hell on him later on. You could see how free flowing he was with his hands and combination punching. Roy was a freak of nature, but he was relatively inexperienced during his time at 160. I guess you can say his prime began in the Thomas Tate fight, his last at 160, and looked brilliant in that short fight. But still, I have to put Hagler first. Junior Middleweight: Tommy Hearns. I love watching Felix Trinidad’s fights at 154, but I think Hearns would have a field day with the straight right hand. I wouldn’t argue against Mike McCallum either. Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard from 1979-82 is one of the best fighters to ever be captured on film. That actually says a lot about Roberto Duran too for that matter. I really haven’t seen enough fights of Jose Napoles and Emile Griffith to accurately assess how I would have them at welter. Junior Welterweight: Both Pernell Whitaker and Floyd Mayweather spent short time in winning belts at 140 as opposed to more accomplished 140 lb champs like Aaron Pryor and JC Chavez. Same with Manny Pacquiao, he only had one fight there. But as it is, I still favor Whitaker to beat the others by decision, so I have him first in terms of H2H. Lightweight: Roberto Duran. No argument against those that would pick Whitaker over him, but I lean towards Duran. Junior Lightweight: Floyd Mayweather. Alexis Arguello and JC Chavez have cases too. Arguello would give Floyd a tougher fight than often given credit for. He may be similar in frame to Diego Corrales and also not the quickest on his feet, but he was a clever boxer with basically every punch in the book. I think he drops a competitive decision. I think Chavez has a better chance at beating Floyd. Floyd was very selective with his punches and could allow himself to get outworked by guys applying pressure. And Chavez was brilliant at applying pressure. But I’d make Arguello a slight favorite over Chavez. Arguello’s punches would be harder to walk through than Floyd’s. And although Chavez could box and move use the ring when he needed to (Lockridge fight), I think that kind of style of fight might favor Arguello. Azumah Nelson was an excellent fighter but I would have to make him the underdog against the above. And Hector Camacho would be a tough fight, but I keep thinking he would get too defensive after getting hit too hard/often and drop decisions.
HW - Joe Louis CW - Evander Holyfield LHW - Michael Spinks SMW - Roy Jones Jr MW - Sugar Ray Robinson JMW - Thomas Hearns WW - Sugar Ray Leonard JWW - Jose Napoles LW - Pernell Whittaker SFW - Alexis Arguello FW - Willie Pep
HW - Ali (Louis close 2nd) CW - Holyfield LHW - Qawi SMW - Jones MW - Monzon JMW - Norris WW - Leonard JWW - Pryor LW - Duran SFW - Mayweather FW - Sanchez
At HW for me, it's Joe Louis. The guy had perfect technique; was great on the front and back-foot; he could throw beautiful combos and he was extremely smart, tough and athletic. I think a couple fighters'd beat him, but that's just due to styles. They aren't better fighters IMO. I don't see how it could be anybody but Holyfield at CW. And I'm not one of those old ogres who refuse to learn about the modern CW scene, or these newbilly ****s who **** all of the old fighters. Holyfield was just the best here. No explanation needed. Charles schooled, KOed and beat another candidate at his own game. Just watch the ****er fight. Unbelievable. Marvin Johnson is a close second. Jones Jr's combo of technique, craftiness and athleticism was brilliant. He literally took the second best SMW ever to school and shut him out while clowning around at times. He's obviously number one. I love Marvin Hagler's style. He was impossible to hurt; when on offense, impossible to deny; technically perfect, and brilliant out of both stances. Great jab, great cross, hooks, uppercuts, footwork, etc; etc. You can go on for hours, but in short, no other fighter at 160 impressed me like Hagler did in his title defences between '80 and '83. Hearns and Benitez at 154, and you saw what happened there. Honestly, I find Sugar Ray Robinson overrated. But that said, you can't say he isn't special. Ray Leonard was right up next to him, and I suppose it depends on what you'd like. I tend to prefer offense to defence, which is why I find Robinson slightly better than Leonard. Duran could make it too, but I'll be honest, I'm tryna keep things it so each fighter only gets one weight. Or else Charles'd take up 160 to 200lbs and that's not fair. Roberto Duran is the best fighter ever IMO, so it's him. Although Whitaker and a few others aren't far behind. As much as it pains me to say it, Floyd is the best SFW ever. Unbelievable in his title fights there. I love Ernesto Marcel, he was just sublime. One of the most complete fighters I've ever seen across all weights, and one of the smoothest movers around. I'd say it's a toss up between Harada and Olivares for me, at BW. Olivares more talented, Harada more skilled. I dunno, take your pick. Flyweight is really a cesspit with no clear number one. Harada could be it, so could Wolgast, Canto, Wilde, Borkhorsor, etc etc. Since I half mentioned Harada at BW, and he was clearly better there, I'll sack him off and say I like Canto here. Canto or Wolgast. Definitely Chang. Destroyed Zapata, and he'd be my number two. Definitely Lopez. Not even close.
HW: Muhammad Ali LHW: Bob Foster MW: SRR WW: SRR LW: Roberto Duran FW: Willie Pep BW: Ruben Olivares FW: Roman Gonzalez
Heavyweight: Ali 175 - Foster 160 - Hagler 147 - Robinson (I would put him at 160 but want diversity) 135 - Duran 126 - Pep 118 - Jofre 112 - Harada
Really shows how differently people see things, I reckon. Honestly, I wouldn't have Foster top three at LHW sort of thing, although I would have him at four. I also think that if we're just going off ability in a vacuum, then I'd have Duran number one from 135 to 160. It's only his lack of size that lets him down as he moved up.
Go a slightly different take 240 plus Lewis 220-240- Tyson 210-220- Ali 200-210 Frazier 190-200 Louis 180-190 Marciano 170-180 Charles 160-170 Jones 150-160 SRR 140-150 Mayweather 130-140 Duran 120-130 Pep
S-HW - LL HW - Joe Louis, JJW, Ali, Tyson L-HW - Charles S-MW - Lloyd Marshall MW - SRR, Hagler, SRR, Hearns WW - Duran can't say without certainty the lower weights, however, PBF Pacman and Carbajal would be among them.
Ok I'm going by fighters I actually saw in my lifetime Larry Holmes Evander Holyfield Michael Spinks Roy Jones Marvin Hagler/Monzon Napoles/Pryor Duran Arguello Pedroza Olivares Lopez
Seems like one certainty on this topic, Duran is undisputed No 1 at LW. Not often we all agree ! keep well.
HW - Ali, Louis, Lewis and young Tyson CW - Holyfield LHW - Foster, Jones Jr. SMW - Calzaghe MW - Hagler, Monzon, Robinson SWW - Hearns, Norris WW - Leonard SLW - Locche LW - Duran SFW - Arguello FW - Pep
