Could any other former lightweight champion go 15 rounds with a prime Marvin Hagler?

It`s not that simple, you have to learn to punch your weight with the new weight you`re carrying, Duran did wel to floor Barkley with a good shot but his power had nowhere near the effect it had on smaller guys so he had to make adjustments, he wasn`t the monster that could bully Ray Leonard around at 147 despite battering the stiff Davey Moore, Duran`s body didn`t have that lean vim look that it had at the lighteweights where he had more speed and his shorter reach was a huge factor at the higher weight, Hagler`s reach was miles longer than Duran`s and he had a great jab, Hearns had the same reach as Ali!

 

Tommy reach was freaky at welte the same as Ali`s, 78 inches and he had a fantasic jab and a vicious 1-2 that Blocker did not have, Breland didn`t have Tommy`s IQ at welter.

 

That’s a good question! I don’t know. The problem is, most lightweights who moved up in weight to middleweight are not on Durans level, and a lot of great Lightweights didn’t move up to lightweight. That being said, I guess Hector Camacho might be able to run a marathon for 15 rounds and just try to survive

 

Mayweather, Whitaker and possibly Camacho could go 15 with Hagler but only if they stayed in survival mode from the first bell and didn't attempt to win which kind of defeats the purpose of taking a fight in the first place.

 

Thinking deeper i can't embrace the survival mode stuff. A big part of the reason why Duran was able to go 15 (besides Hagler being tentative) was due to the fact he gave Hagler plenty to think about offense wise. His counter right was excellent and Hagler ended up with a somewhat swollen bleeding eye. Hagler was also worried about Duran thumbing by his own words. I think going in there to survive wouldn't be good.

 

When Duran was lightweight champion he came to Philadelphia to defend his title in 1977. Alot of tough fighters. Tough boxing town. There were no lightweights or welterweight in the gym that could take his punches. They put him in with a tough middleweight who could at least take it and give Duran some work.

 

I did not say it was simple . .. but the fact remains is that Duran was a natural SBW and there are other greats who were naturally bigger .. I'm not picturing a 135 pound fighter getting in the ring with Hagler .. Like I said , give them 5 years like Duran had ..

 

Nobody else could do it imo.

 

I have talked of this subject for years. Duran could hold the weight. Duran was strong and Pazienza said he hit harder than Roy Jones. If we are to be objective the topic has to be Barkley and was he beatable? The answer is yes. Size and power was not what deterred him it was speed and counterpunching.

 

It is very hard to say because of Barkley as an opponent. He was not a great fighter and had many liabilities-defensely and facial. So personally I never saw it as the accomplishment others did. I think many guys moving up could beat Barkley if they had some speed and counterpunching ability. Yes. No problem. He lost to most top guys he fought at that time. Kalambay who did not use size. Nunn, Benn.. And Sims beat him when he was younger in 1984 He beat Hearns, and that was a great win, and somehow people want to believe that beating Barkley was like beating Hearns. Not even close. You want to know who would beat him? Whitaker could have moved up and beaten him. Pick a guy who could avoid the punches and then counterpunch. It is not easy but they would slow pace and counter and he would swell up or cut and win a decision. Barkley was not Hagler or Leonard or Hearns. Whether Barkley had a good style for Tommy or not, he would have never beaten Virgil Hill like Tommy did. Styles make fights.

I think Virgil stops him by TKO in about 6 rounds. I think Barkley was a good fighter and his style was great for Hearns. Exploit Tommy's habit of punching and landing in the middle of the exchanges and using physical strength to get in close and take away the distance and leverage. , and back him up to take away some power. It worked. Everything Barkley did well complimented what Tommy had flaws in.

With Duran, his whole style was if he is in range he could work his magic and land his punches. Which is why he beat Ray in the first fight.. Ray gave him the range, which is where Duran is wonderful. But Tommy Hearns would never be in range, and then if Duran is not in range, where is Tommy going to be to land on Duran and with his speed. Totally different situation. Tommy is going to pick him apart with that jab up and down and he had legit elite speed. I give Barkley credit for beating Hearns, but he was not the fighter Hearns was. It is a situation we all know. Norton was never Ali. Tomas Molinares was not Starling, which is a stretch..

 

That and Breland did not have Hearns mindset to go for the knockout no matter what, which at times really hurt Tommy especially in that Barkley fight and others fights. He really loved mixing it up and going for knockouts.You could see how differently Tommy looked at guys at the staredown -he and Breland were just very different. Hearns was in there to land and knockout guys and he just had that instinct that he was going to war.. Breland was more here I am and I am going to win on points like this is an amateur fight or something. The intensity was different. And Hearns had a bigger upper body and stronger physically. although Breland had bigger legs I think. As for Tommy going for knockouts? It made me nervous many times. If he had a weak chin he didn't seem to know it or care.

 

@BitPlayerVesti @Unforgiven @klompton2 @Senya13

any thought here guys?

 

This fight proves to me Duran is a top 5 ATG. He was ahead on points by the 12th and was fighting one of the greatest Middleweights that ever lived. He was old, past his best , yet brilliant. It looked like Hagler not only respected him, but was just as amazed at Duran as we were.


Hagler said he was the most talented fighter he ever stepped in the ring with. Duran stood toe to toe with a monster, while another FAB 4 member had to run and flee, just to stay alive and then attempt to steal rounds to win a controversial decision from a badly faded Hagler. (Leonard lost by my cards as well) . The only other ATG Hagler faced stood toe to toe and got KO'd for trying. THAT man later won a title at LIGHT HEAVY.


Duran was a natural Lightweight, and despite being far past his prime. Gave Hagler a run for his money and stood right in front of him and fought him. He nearly pulled it off. Consider his performance against Leonard twinkle toes, and the monster that was Tommy Hearns. All bigger than Duran, boh had more power at the weight, and may have been faster. Yet Duran fights Hagler a full 15 rounds and even taunts Hagler while he was in his absolute prime. He should at the very least get as much credit as Conn did when he fought Louis.


Duran must get the most respect for his performance. It elevates him above all the other Fab 4 - by quite a margin.

Could any other natural Lightweight do anything but try and survive..... nope.... Not ONE in history has any chance other than Duran . He is a legend

 

I think it's really hard to say.

That said, if Hagler were to fight every single lightweight in history at their H2H best, I doubt Duran, would be the only one not to get stopped over 15.

The list of guys who could do it, is probably pretty long, but for many the odds of actually doing it are probably pretty low.
There have been a lot of really skilled tough Lightweights. I don't think I could say it'd be impossible for Joe Gans or Floyd Mayweather to manage it.

Kid Lavigne was ridiculously hard to stop, he went 14 rounds with Smith when he was shot, and even then his brother had to jump in to save him. I wouldn't favour Lavigne to do it, but at his best could he? Maybe.

 

There have been alot worse Middleweight Champions than Iran Barkley. Both before and since. He was huge at the weight even in the day of same day weigh in. Beating Hearns even slightly diminished IMO was no small feat.