Both Sonny Liston and George Foreman came from similar backgrounds. Sonny terrorized others on the tough streets of St. Louis during his youthful brushes with the law, later he was a bone breaking debt collector for the underworld and later was a resident of the penitentiary. George was a tough gang leader in the tough streets of Houston, Texas. He later took up boxing, winning a gold medal in the 1968 Olympics. Both were massive built fighters who knew no fear in the ring. Liston was a better boxer, where George always swung for the fences with each blow. Sonny had better stamina in going the distance, as evidenced in his decision victory over Eddie Machen on Sept 7 1960, Foreman lacked stamina. I would have to go with the more mature Sonny Liston with his massive 14 inch fists. They did spar before Liston's demise, Sonny said that that kid could sure hit.
Watch the Foreman Lyle fight, then imagine that Lyle has a chin as good as Foreman's, and is an outstanding tactician. This is not looking good for Foreman!
However, George would put away just about anybody he got in the corners or on the ropes. Liston, on the other hand, struggled to execute that as quickly and powerfully as George did.
This is a good point. Sonny is a lot more steady, methodical fighter. In fact, Sonny will throw the jab all night long until he hurts a guy, and then destroy him. George will mix it up more, as we have proof of in film. This thread is called Liston vs. Foreman in a slugfest, so let's look at it that way. What are the most violent slugfests Sonny was in that are on film? Two with Williams. Folley is the only one that wasn't filmed that was a slugfest. Williams, those were pretty tough fights, but they were short. On the other hand, look at George's top two slugfests with Lyle and Holyfield. Holyfield was certainly better than Williams, and Lyle might have been. George absorbed a lot more punishment, and a lot longer, whereas Liston did not have to endure Williams very long. However, I mentioned the Holyfield fight, but I imagine that this is not the version of Foreman we are talking about.
Foreman wins in a slug fest which suits him, in a boxing match it lasts longer, but Foreman finds a way to land the right hand and knocks Liston out
Just like he was uncomfortable against Williams who staggered him and broke his broke his nose? Just like he was uncomfortable against Dejohn? Just like he was uncomfortable against Nino Valdez who shut his eye?
Now imagine if Foreman was actually in his prime for that fight and not getting off the couch for it , hey and not abandoning his jab for the crowd.
I honestly think that George’s quick feet lead him to an early KO, Sonny never once in his career boxed his way to a win on an aggressive more powerful opponent he never hesitated to engage it was always the other way around. In a fire fight we have to look at the facts Foreman is more durable, stronger, more powerful, bigger and just all round more aggressive and more comfortable in the toe to toe exchanges.
You're changing the subject because you have nothing for me. You said Liston would be uncomfortable in a slugfest and I asked for examples where he showed that in real life, and you couldn't provide any so you manufactured this straw-man. He never showed even the slightest bit of discomfort in a slugfest. Even when Williams broke his nose, he remained calm, put on his poker face, and proceeded to KO Williams within minutes. Contrast with Foreman, who in his slugest, was dropped twice in a single round, completely abandoned his defense, along with his best weapon, his jab, and swung for the fences. If anyone's not as proven in slugfests, it's Foreman.
Um what? Yes. Let's look at them. Baseless claim. Liston was legitimately dropped once in his career, by a huge combo, when he was at least 40 years old, sick with the flu (ironically by Foreman's own admission) and exhausted. Foreman was dropped more than that in one fight. Liston also did much better in his slugfest with Williams, "Williams hit Liston with a left hook that would have finished any other man" Gross remembered. "It would have torn some fighters head off. Liston just blinked and came right back." Contrast that with Foreman's slugfest with Lyle, who dropped Foreman twice and had him on the verge of a KO (and would've gotten a TKO had their been a stricter ref) Very debatable. Certainly not a "fact". Based on common opponents testimonies, this is untrue. Wepner, Ali, and Scrap Iron all said Liston was the harder puncher (in Wepner's case, "so much harder). Johnny Tocco also said Liston hit harder but he's never been hit by either man, so his testimony obviously doesn't mean as much as the aforementioned men. Liston also didn't need to swing out of left field for his punches. He could hit you just as hard from a boxing stance. No argument their. But the advantage is very little. Foreman was about 2 inches taller, and weighed 5-10 pounds more. Liston had bigger biceps, longer reach, bigger chest, Neck, fists, thighs, etc Liston was only more aggressive when he needed to be. Unlike Foreman he had more tools at his disposal. By far the most baseless claim. Simply untrue. As I stated above, Liston in his slugfest with Williams, even after getting pummeled and having his nose broken, remained calm as can be, put on a poker-face, and brutally knocked Williams out in minutes. Foreman on the other hand, completely abandoned his defense, and by your admission his jab, started breathing heavily, and swung for the fences. Liston was much more comfortable under fire, and it's not even close.
You said "I don't think Sonny would be comfortable in a slugfest.". When I asked you to refute it, you changed the subject and said he'd never been in a slugfest with an ATG, putting aside the fact that neither did Foreman, that wasn't the subject at hand. You said Liston would be uncomfortable in a slugfest yet couldn't provide any examples because it's simply untrue. As a matter of fact, Foreman was the one who panicked, and showed discomfort and vulnerability under fire. Not Liston.
