I tend to Liston from 59/60. I think he can withstand Foreman's onslaught and can win in the later rounds, because of his great jab.
Cry me a river fan boy, in summary instead of adressing this BS piece by piece here are facts i leave you with Foreman beat better people then Sonny, he also beat a better fighter then Sonny himself and in his senior years had a career just as good as Charles he also actually stopped durable fighters and at near forty was competitive with one of the greatest HWs ever. whilst at 49 Foreman now this one is objective put on a better pure boxing showing then Sonny ever did caught on film. (find me one)
From January 58 to July 63 Liston went undefeated thumping numerous contenders thru to walloping Patterson x 2. That's a hot streak of over 5 years. Liston all the way up to and including Patterson would have a fine chance against George.
I can't see this fight developing into a mindless slugfest where neither stick to their strengths, but in a world where it does happen, I pick Foreman. Edges in power, chin, heart, strength and speed lead me to believe that he'd stop Liston before Liston stopped him. Liston's relative lack of a right hand would hurt him here, too. It'd be a great fight. Imagine a combination of Liston-Williams/Machen and Foreman-Lyle but with the added suspence that literally any movement could brutally end the fight. But I'd pick Foreman in a head-to-head, all-out collision vs any heavyweight ever. But like I said, I don't think fight would actually play out like that. I think Liston would play to his strengths more, let Foreman come to him, and counter. He'd likely circle to his left, stick his jab in Foreman's open face and hook off it for massive damage. He'd be able to hold his own vs Foreman in the strength department. Liston's superior technique, stamina and defence means he likely benefits from a more conservative way of fighting which - if I'm interpreting the title correctly - would he out of the question in a brawl. I think Liston's chances skyrocket if he's allowed to play to his strengths, somewhat obviously, but he still has a good chance normally. One of Foreman's most underrated aspects is his ability to drag anybody into his type of fight, which he was almost unbeatable. I think he could impose himself on Liston, but he'd ship some brutal, collosal punches in the process. 50/50, as I honestly don't think Foreman could overpower Liston no matter how Liston fights. It's a a great match-up. Gun to my head, in a fight with no restrictions, I pick Liston. In a brawl, and to answer the question, I pick Foreman.
If you have nothing to counter my argument, just man up and admit you're wrong. I would do the same, if I found out I was in the wrong. 1. a prime Frazier wasn't "better" than Sonny, let alone the version Foreman faced. 2. You clearly don't understand the "styles make fights concept". Foreman beat a better fighter than Jimmy Young as well. Didn't matter when they stepped into the ring. Meaningless straw-man. That would be relevant in a discussing about who has the superior legacy. It means jack**** H2H. Liston was infinitely a better boxer than Foreman. This is not even up for debate. Liston in his one fight with Machen, showed more boxing ability than Foreman did in his entire career.
Foreman might have the edge in chin, but in power? No, Liston hit harder than george foreman. Muhammad Ali who fought both fighters said "Sonny Liston. The man who annihilated Floyd Patterson twice. HE WAS GONNA KILL ME! But he hit harder than George. His reach is longer than George's. He's a better boxer than George" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118147/characters/nm0000738 Chuck Wepner said "of all the fights i had, 147 amateurs and pro, he (liston) was the hardest puncher of anybody i've ever fought, it's almost like getting hit with a baseball bat, everytime he hit me, i can feel something in my face breaks" This content is protected George “Scrap Iron” Johnson was an expert on the Golden Age sluggers, having fought Jerry Quarry, (twice!) Eddie Machen, Joe Frazier, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Duane Bobick and Ron Lyle! Johnson was stopped by Liston after he was beaten into helplessness in the 7th round. Scrap Iron lost to Foreman after a cut in the 7th round, and otherwise was fine. Sonny knocked the tough as old shoe leather Scrap Iron down, and George didn’t. Sonny Liston was stronger than george , foreman himself said that sonny was the only man to ever made him back up by sheer brute strength.
Wepner also said Liston hit "so much harder" than Foreman. Johnny Tocco said out of Liston, Foreman, and Tyson. Liston was the hardest puncher by far, though obviously this doesn't hold as much weight, as the men who actually stepped in the ring or sparred with both.
Prime for prime Liston wins a boxing match 7/10 either by decision or late stoppage. If at any point it becomes a brawl, I would reverse that to about 6/10 for Foreman. Either way, both guys would be badly hurt and it would be wise of them to retire.
Like this. Liston didn´t have the credentials 70s George had in a direct confrontation. The only benefits I see for Sonny is boxing and maybe the jab. If Liston goes for Georges chin from the beginning, he would be edged in power, size, strength and durability. In a real world he´d see he could box that fellow and find openings in a sloppy guard sometimes. In a brawl, he´d loose.
Ydksab. You go around making unfunny jokes/references about Primo Carnera, or lame jokes in general, repeat already disproven cliches but when actually pressed in a debate, you change the subject and say something the lines of "okay buddy" as you just did and refuse to engage in an argument, nor concede that you're wrong.
I think Sonny was better, but not greater. But h2h I see him beating George and probably stopping him somewhere along the way
This is true. The streak was 5 years altogether. I think the zenith of the period was likely 59-60. 61 I think Sonny only fought four rounds with Howard king and Westphal. Then one round each in 62 and 63 against one opponent (albeit his best opponent) Where as Sonny logged up over 40 rounds with the years 59 and 60 and must have been extremely seasoned and on point then. Though you quite rightly say the run itself was 5 years. when you look at Sonnys career and match making, he really needed to be a two fight a year defending champion by 61..but those pesky title rematches halted his development for a year. Liston did well to deliver against Floyd the way he did, because he must have went stale with the drop in opponent level with King and Westphal. Ultimately Floyd was disappointing in both Liston fights. Which made up for it.
