Jack Johnson (of Ketchel fight) vs. Jack Dempsey (of Willard fight)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by William Walker, Feb 12, 2021.



  1. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    that is, both in their peaks, whenever you think that is; this is when I think it is. I don't have these two in the same category at all. I think Johnson was a C level fighter. Dempsey was B level. I do think Johnson's superior physicalities would prove difficult, but Johnson would be surprised when his power couldn't KO Dempsey. I doubt he could even floor Dempsey. I have Dempsey pounding out a grueling split decision.
     
  2. DanDaly

    DanDaly Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson would provide some problems and maybe last the distance over 15 but it's more likely that Dempsey blasts him back to Galveston by the 10th round. Dempsey and his contemporaries were the ushering in of a new age of much more modern boxing that fighters from Johnson/Willard and before just can't keep up with at the very highest levels fighting how they did. However I'm not saying they couldn't adapt. That style of posturing in front of each other for 20 seconds then throwing a punch that misses just to clinch and repeat wouldn't cut it against Dempsey or most high level fighters after. Johnson could clinch with Dempsey all night and Dempsey would beat the daylights out of him on the inside every time.
     
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  3. Boxing GOAT

    Boxing GOAT Active Member Full Member

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    Johnson can run but he can’t hide. He wouldn’t have his typical size advantage that he had over many of his opponents. Wouldn’t be able to get away with the excessive clinching either. Dempsey would pressure him, stalk him, and close the distance in the later rounds. Late round KO for Dempsey.
     
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  4. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    I don’t think Johnson’s clinching, holding, grabbing, mauling, wrestling style would work on Dempsey. I don’t think he would get the opportunity to even do it as Dempsey was a moving target and not stationary. Dempsey by stoppage.
     
  5. LoadedGlove

    LoadedGlove Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't reckon Dempsey could have hit Johnson with a speeding ticket, let alone a punch. Dempsey couldn't hit Tom Gibbons.
    Johnson would have boxed the ears off Dempsey.
     
  6. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm probably in the minority here, but I think Johnson would win, and convincingly so. Dempsey, for all his famed power and tenacity, didn't do so well against clever fighters who could box. The best boxers he faced, frankly all lasted the distance, for example, Gibbons and Tunney. Sharkey is another who, was a decent technician, and he was doing just fine till some questionable tactics. Point is, Dempsey didn't plow through boxers like Grant went through Richmond, quite the opposite. Johnson has attributes in some areas, that are superior to those listed, and which might make it even easier of a fight for Johnson that those listed. Johnson is bigger, stronger, better at parrying, better in the clinch - both offensively and defensively, faster reflexes, excelled at fighters come at them, and had more power. If this is the best version of Johnson, then he's not pulling punches and carrying Dempsey, he's going to tie him up, pound him, dodge, counter, repeat. If the men that gave Dempsey trouble could avoid all these devastating punches, and not get KO'd, what is a better defensive fighter who is bigger and stronger going to do? Johnson is an excellent ring general, likely again, better than those listed. Though Gibbons and Tunney are there, but the point is, even if it gets a little worse than I'm thinking, I see Johnson being able to adapt to the situation faster than Dempsey; who himself would likely be perplexed, and also aggravated and Johnson's style. I see that playing right into Johnson's hands, and him countering a wide open Dempsey coming in. When Johnson sat down on his punches, he could hurt you, and I think the ref eventually stops this fight around the 8th. With Johnson maybe getting going down for a brief flash kd.
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I like Johnson by decision,though Dempsey is my favourite fighter. I think he smothers Dempsey's attacks and contains him, turning the bout into a dreary waltz ,upper cutting the Mauler inside and wrapping his arms around him to stop his hooks landing.
    Johnson would be playing with fire all the time, but that was his game.He called Dempsey," a great 4 round fighter,after that he's just another fighter",exaggeration but with a kernel of truth in there. I don't think Johnson would attempt to stop Dempsey at any time,he was much too smart to get into a shootout with Dempsey.
    Johnson wins a dec if Alec Greggains isn't refereeing, but his ribs and balls would be sore for a week!
    I like Johnson by decision,though Dempsey is my favourite fighter.I think he would smother Dempsey's attacks and contain him.Johnson called dempseya great 4 rou
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson never ran in a ring in his life, he anticipated punches and blocked them from a flat footed stance.
     
  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    This for me
     
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  10. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Dempsey fought a ton on the inside, and employed wrestling and maulling almost as much as Johnson.
     
  11. Boxing GOAT

    Boxing GOAT Active Member Full Member

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    which was easy to do against much smaller opponents or the long string of white no-hopers he fought.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson's title challengers had the highest average weight until Louis 's reign. We don't have the stats for all his opponents but we do know 23 of the 75 were six feet or over, and at least 9 were over 6'2".
     
  13. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm going to change the premise a bit. I think it's 50-50 between the Johnson who fought Burns and the Dempsey who fought Willard.
     
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  14. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Dempsey's vaunted inside game wasn't so devastating against Brennan, Gibbons, and Sharkey. He wore those guys down, but it took a while. Johnson was bigger and stronger than all of them and he hit a lot harder than all of them and he had one heckuvan uppercut. I use those fights as examples rather than the Willard fight because Dempsey had no need of an inside game in that fight. Willard caved early. Dempsey would be in tougher with Johnson than at any time in his career. On the other hand, Dempsey would make Johnson work like never before. It would be the immovable object (Johnson) versus the irresistible force (Dempsey).
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
  15. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    that's ok; like I said, I really meant peak Johnson vs. peak Dempsey; for me this is it, whatever it is for you, I want that to determine your position