Tyson Fury vs Ezzard Charles

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Devon, Feb 17, 2021.



  1. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I don't see Charles doing much against Fury.

    He's not an athletic freak like Tyson who could be competitive against a much bigger and taller opponent. He's not even a true heavyweight.
     
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  2. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, Fury punching himself in the face is exactly nothing. Dempsey getting ko'd in one round by Flynn doesn't mean he had a weak chin. Sometimes **** just happens. Like Fury punching himself in the face. I wouldn't take that as some sort of indication, that he's an uncoordinated boxer.

    As for the knockdowns... was there ever a heavyweight champ, who suffered more knockdowns during his career than Charles?

    Yes, I put some stock in size - and a lot when the difference is as humongous as in this case! I know you want to think, Fury is this uncoordinated, clumpsy oaf that can't box... but he actually can! To think that Charles will be able to teach him a lesson in the finer arts of boxing, while cruising to a comfortable victory... well, not the most likely scenario, if you ask me.
     
  3. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." Bob Fitzsimmons.
     
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  4. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    But Ruby Red, despite almost certainly hitting harder than The The Cincinnati Cobra, was never able to fell Jeffries.
    And however many more times they fought, it is unlikely he would have.
    Also Fury is much bigger than Jeffries was.

    That is a nice & inspiring saying. But most times being bigger, all other things being equal & the history of boxing shows, makes it more difficult for them to fall.
     
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  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Big guys beat up little guys - Chip Kelly
     
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  6. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Precisely.
     
  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I'm really not sure of that at all.

    I think with Fitz, while he certainly had a lot of raw power, what made him special was his skill as a finisher and killer instinct. There were contemporaries regarded as harder hitters, but not producing anything like the results. Plus his stoppages at heavyweight were very much the result of sustained barrages.

    Charles had legit power, and produced a lot of really good KOs and knock downs.

    Add to it Charles also had about 20-30Ibs on Fitz at heavyweight.
     
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  8. DanDaly

    DanDaly Active Member Full Member

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    We’ll never agree on this. I think that Fury punching himself is a small indication of his lack of coordination. Dempsey being KO’d by Flynn is an indication that he wasn’t world class at that time in his career.

    Again, how many knockdowns did prime Charles suffer at heavyweight?

    I’ve never thought that at all. I specifically said that Tyson Fury deserves his ranking in the heavyweight division and is a fine fighter but he isn’t on Charles’ level in terms of skill. Charles has the resume to back it up. Fury had fits with a 33 year old Wilder who is about as unskilled a heavyweight champion as they come. He couldn’t even muster a knockout over an aged Wlad Klitschko who had been iced 3 times prior and had been knocked down by worse competition. But I’m supposed to believe that he completely shuts out and even knocks out Prime ezzard Charles. A fighter who even went 15 hard rounds with Rocky Marciano after his prime. Tyson Fury could beat Charles up for 12 rounds and still wouldn’t knock him out.

    You have a narrative in your head established that you’re right and anyone who doesn’t think Tyson Fury would win is a revisionist that thinks 1940s heavyweights would rule the modern division regardless of anything. That’s not me in the slightest.
     
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  9. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course Charles was never knocked down by someone like Cunningham - a 6'3", 210 lbs fighter with an 82 inch reach. Because that was not the type of fighter he usually met. Instead he was getting knocked down by small, sub-200 guys. He hit the floor a total of 29 times against 11 different men - 8 of whom weighed less than 190 lbs!

    I don't have a narrative in my head about anything! I don't care if boxers from another era were better or worse than today. I look at these dream match-ups on a case by case basis - and I just can't see how going 15 hard rounds with a small fighter like Marciano, indicates to us that he would beat someone like Fury. Which doesn't mean that he wouldn't... because, obviously, no one will ever know! I just think it would be highly unlikely. But that's just my opinion.
     
  10. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Pocket Aces win small hands and lose big hands - some poker guy.
     
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  11. DanDaly

    DanDaly Active Member Full Member

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    Good Lord you are hysterically dishonest.

    -4 knockdowns were against Jimmy Bivins while Charles was pre-prime.
    -8 of those knockdowns were when Charles was 168 lbs against Lloyd Marshall. Cleary not prime because Charles knocked him out for the 10 count 3 years later in 6 rounds!
    -1 against Bivins again (so far the only prime knockdown)
    -1 against Lloyd Marshall in the fight that he knocked him out. Charles was not hurt.
    -1 against Oakland Billy Smith for a no count. Charles was not hurt.
    - His next knockdown wasn’t until over 4 years later when he was KO’d by Walcott after almost a decade of fighting top quality competition on a frequent basis.
    -4 against Marciano
    -9 after he was suffering from ALS and had been clearly ruined by Marciano.

    So in total Charles has 3 prime knockdowns. Only 1 of those knockdowns was Charles legitimately hurt. On a schedule where he was fighting the best there was multiple times for the better part of the decade. Tyson Fury has not and could not match this level of activity. He’s lucky to fight once per year. He goes and blows his load then gets fat and has to prepare for an opponent for half a year or more at a time. Just watch while he gets beat by Anthony Joshua.

    Rocky Marciano hits harder and was a better finisher than Tyson Fury. If Charles can go 15 with him then he can at least go 12 with Fury.

    Ezzard Charles’ level of competition combined with frequency, skill, and physical ability screams that he was more than capable of beating a Tyson Fury.

    Joe Louis was only 21 with 19 fights before he demolished Primo Carnera and beat him in every facet of boxing. He had fought only 3 opponents that weighed at or over 200 lbs. There was no indicator that Louis would beat Primo.

    What has Tyson Fury done to show that he would beat Ezzard Charles?
     
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  12. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hysterically dishonest? I've just given the cold numbers - regardless of when they happened in his career. Did I say he was knocked down a lot of times in his prime - I don't think so.

    Hystercal is when you claim, Fury accidentally punching himself in the face is some sort of indication, that he is uncoordinated. That's just laughable!

    But go ahead - dream sweet dreams about how Charles would beat a fast, mobile, fighter that much bigger than himself. If that makes you happy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  13. DanDaly

    DanDaly Active Member Full Member

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    You were asked to provide the knockdowns of prime Charles at heavyweight and you responded with 29 knockdowns. Only 1 where prime Charles was actually hurt. None of the 3 during his prime were at heavyweight.

    Coordinated fighters don't punch themselves in the face. They punch the opponent.

    Other than Fury's weight difference you can't provide any evidence that Fury was capable of beating prime Charles at heavyweight. It's like you don't even watch the footage of Tyson Fury and instead just read the boxrec numbers. His only good comparable win is over a champion who looks absolutely awful and has a reputation of having low skill and only a huge right hand. His chin was never even regarded as good.

    Fury was put in with a grey haired 40 year old and not only could he not produce a knockout but he put on one of the most uninteresting heavyweight title bouts in history.
     
  14. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    (Partial Quote)

    Yes. BUT, Fury took that punch well. That's why I pick Charles to win by unanimous decision. (If Fury can't knock Fury out, then Charles can't either.)
     
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  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I would like to see a thread about who hit hardest among those at that time & before.
    I am open to any primary information that he was better at finishing but did not hit as hard as those like...Choynski?
    I understand that he fought at ~ 165, & Charles was 184.5 against Louis.
    He certainly hit hard & except in his extended decline, was an ATG by any standards.

    Still all land on a soft canvas, so literally it is not significant how hard they fall.
    But the main point is all other things being equal, size is an advantage, including how likely they are to fall.
    Someone like Fury is highly skilled at avoiding punishment, & punching so far up with soooo much shorter arms would put the even better Charles- lb. for lb.-at a big disadvantage.

    Someone like Valuev could have so much success mostly just because of size.