That is comparing the zenith of Tyson's career with the nadir of Joshua's. Tyson's own team knew he wasn't the same destructive force of nature against the taller, heavier boxers in the division. It's there in the tape and the records. I think it's no coincidence that he didn't face a single guy over 192cm throughout the 90s. The reality is that Tyson is an ATG, but he was a 178cm, 220lb fighter and Joshua is 198cm, 245lb top-tier Super Heavyweight. Joshua might not have the skills of some of Tyson's peers, heck he doesn't have the skills of some of his own peers, but he has still been dominant in the pros and amateurs in a large part through his physical attributes, but also what skills he does possess. Maybe '88 Tyson wins, maybe he doesn't. But I think history tells us it is not an easy night's work. And there is a fair chance that Joshua stops him.
How'd you manage to ignore the biggest men Tyson actually faced? This is just manipulating the facts to suit your silly made up narrative.
If Joshua somehow managed to muster the energy up to get his body to the stadium and into the ring at 145lbs, I think starvation might end him before Tyson. I'm not sure how it goes. Two of the most overrated champions squaring off. I'm inclined to say Tyson because of Joshua's glass jaw.
I thought this thread was about ’88 Tyson. Not a magical Mike Tyson with the experience of his late career and the physical gifts of his prime…So I’m not sure why you are bringing up Nielsen, Galota and Savarese. Should I include Lennox Lewis or Kevin McBride too? But fine, I will address the heavy weights you listed. Frank Bruno was certainly an extremely muscled man. But he was massive in the same way Chisora is massive. But Bruno was short by today’s standards. He was 191cm. That is the same height as Usyk. So, okay let’s look at these "massive men" from the 2000s Brian Nielsen, 36 years old, 191cm and 260lbs. He was massive in the same way Andy Ruiz is Massive. Guys I don’t think I’m being unfair to say you have to be at a minimum 193cm to be considered a big heavyweight by today’s standards. It makes more sense for this discussion to look at fighters that at least approached Joshua in height. Joshua is 198cm and roughly 245lb at weigh in. Andrew Galota 193cm 240lbs. He is at least taller than the other two, and I acknowledge that Galota wanted to quit after the first round. But there is too much that went on both inside the ring and outside the ring that it’s a NC for a reason. Lou Savarese. 195cm and 241lbs. Finally one man at least comparable in stature to Anthony Joshua. Good first round KO in the year 2000 for Tyson against a guy no one in Scotland had heard of brought in to make Tyson look good for a potential fight with Lenox Lewis. A guy that had lost to a 48 year old George Forman. So…yeah there was him in 2000. But again, this thread is about ’88 Tyson. There is a reason the tallest fighter Mike faced in the 90s was 192cm Buster Douglas…
People used to say Tyson was a stylistic nightmare for Vlad K, but he has very quick feet and is extremely effective at clinching. AJ is neither. This is truly one of the worst stylistic matchups for Joshua. Joshua is most effective at mid-range and also most susceptible at mid-range. That said, Tyson is small by modern standards. That didn't mean as much in the 80's/90's, but means a lot today.
Look I just want to say that I acknowledge Tyson as an ATG. He was a force of nature in the 1980s. He beat everyone put in front of him for that he deserves respect for what he achieved. But this idea that he knocks out all these modern super heavies is pure fan fiction. This is a hypothetical match-up between '88 Tyson and Anthony Joshua. Tyson peak is roughly 178cm and 220lb at weigh in Joshua 198cm and 245lb (but there is debate over optimal weight) You claim I ignored all the biggest men Tyson faced, so please let me know if I have missed anyone. Here are all the biggest men Tyson faced from '86 until his incarceration: David Jaco (198cm, 210lbs) 11/01/1986 Tyson was 19 years old. Jaco was a good young pro, but a twig at 210lbs, outweighed by Tyson and coming off two KO losses. Tyson finished him in 1 round. Jose Ribalta (195cm, 211lbs) 17/08/1986. Tyson is on course for a UD with a few knock downs along the way. But that was a terrible gift KO in the final round, the Cuban was clearly eager and more than capable of finishing the fight. Mitch Green (196cm, 225lbs) 20/05/1986. Tyson wins by UD. Mitch Green is clearly not intimidated but fights on the back foot throughout with a slapping fast hand style. Neither man is really in trouble. Tony Tucker (196cm, 221lbs) 01/08/1987. Tyson is frustrated by Tucker, wins a UD, but this was no one sided beat down. Tyrel Biggs (196cm, 228lbs) 16/10/1987. Tyson demolishes Biggs. Whilst Biggs won gold in the newly formed Super Heavy Weight division, his amateur success didn’t translate into the pros. Tyson’s best win over a big man. So from 5 fights, we have 2 that went the distance. 2 clean stoppages, and 1 gift final round stoppage. But a pattern is forming. ’88 Tyson starts having trouble with tall men who he doesn’t outweigh. But 5 fights is not enough information, especially as someone like Mitch Green has a completely different style to Joshua. But it starts to tell us how Tyson handles size. So, let’s go down in size and look at all the men Tyson fought who were 193cm. Mike Jameson (193cm, 236lb) 24/01/1986. A terrible 5th round stoppage by Joe “winning team” Cortez. Jameson was up at the count of 4 and steady on his feet. Jameson came to fight, and while in no danger of causing an upset looked like he would happily go the distance in a scheduled 8 rounder. It was clear Jameson was not brought in to go rounds with Tyson but to be another KO on his resume. But this was an early sign that Mike wasn’t going to be able to blast away tall heavier men. Alfonso Ratlif (193cm, 201lb) 06/09/1986. Scared ****less of a far heavier Tyson. 1st round KO. Highlight reel stuff from Tyson. But being objective, this guy was 201lbs without the need to cut weight. He would be fighting at cruiserweight today. James Smith (193cm, 233lb) 07/03/1987. Ugly, boring fight. Easy UD win for Tyson, but Smith did finish the fight stronger. Carl Williams (193cm, 218lb) 01/08/1987. Outweighed by Tyson. 1st round KO. So, there is another 4 fights. Where Tyson struggled to dispatch men who were heavier than him, and made short work of fighters he outweighed. So let’s bring it back to the start: Anthony Joshua (198cm, 245lb) I think its pretty clear that Mike Tyson would have a hard night with the very tall and very heavy Anthony Joshua, even if stylistically the fight favours Tyson, size would be a massive factor in the fight. There is a reason Tyson didn't fight anyone over 192cm throughout the 90s, but hey maybe I’m being too strict with what I consider tall. So, let’s go down to 192cm: Buster Douglas (192cm, 231lb) 11/02/1990. Oh right… yeah I better stop there.
Well Joshua got stopped by Andy Ruiz so hey... maybe i am underestimating Aj, but the way i saw him have a lot of trouble against Povetkin, i honestly do think Mike Tyson would be too much for him.
The Povetkin fight is exactly the fight to look at for this hypo. Pov is by far the closest thing we have to a Tyson style in the modern era. Even a shot 39 year old Povetkin had a significant amount of success against a Joshua who was at the height of his hype (this was the fight before Ruiz).
This is a fair point, but at the same time Joshua is still the only man to stop Povetkin. And even a peak Povetkin was seemingly too small to become #1 in the division and win a legitimate world title. Though to be fair I would have fancied his chances if that Wilder fight hadn't fallen through. Povetkin stylistically is as you say closest we have to Tyson, but Povetkin was still a good deal taller and longer than Tyson. He falls almost exactly between Joshua and Tyson in terms of Height and Reach. Joshua - Height: 198cm - Reach: 208cm - Weight: 245lbs Povetkin - Height: 188cm - Reach: 191cm - Weight : 222lbs Tyson - Height: 178cm - Reach: 180cm - Weight: 220lbs
Too much effort and gymnastics to suit your agenda on your part. You cite "192cm Douglas" as Tyson coming a cropper against a big man. Have you seen what the 178cm blob Andy Ruiz did to Anthony Joshua??? The best Joshua (from Klitschko fight) still struggled and almost gassed out against a gun shy semi retired 41 year old. Prime Tyson cuts through Joshua like a scythe.
No, I didn't. You clearly completely missed my point. Buster Douglas wasn't a big heavyweight - not in the modern sense. He would look small next to Joshua. But he had a weight advantage which along with his relative height was something Tyson struggled with. That was my whole point. The taller and heavier they got the more Tyson struggled to put them away. It's not my fault that Tyson's team steered him away from tall fighters throughout the 90s with 192cm Buster Douglas being his tallest opponent that decade. But if I was to hazard a guess it's probably the reason Tim Witherspoon took a dive for Don King against Bonecrusher and is conspicuously absent from Tyson's resume. But I'll stick with making arguments based on fight footage and the records we have rather than hearsay. As for 178cm Andy Ruiz Jr.?? You are literally inventing statistics. Enjoy your fantasy.
Ok, how tall is Andy Ruiz then? You think he is 6ft2? He looked significantly smaller than 6ft6 Joshua. And he doesnt exactly tower over 5ft7 Canelo either. I'll be generous to make placate you and say he is 180cm barefoot. Happy?
Well he is listed at 188cm, but I acknowledge some boxers fudge the numbers. But rather than some number you made up, how about how about using the stat on Celebheights.com? They seem pretty anal about such things. They have him listed at 183cm. So that's 6'0 and still 5cm taller than Mike
