13. Max Schmeling II. One of the two best wins on his record, but don't be fooled. Grotesque robbery. Sharkey lost every round of the fight. 12. Joe Louis. Sharkey was clearly past it, but actually hit Louis with at least a few meaningful blows. He did more in these three rounds then he did against Schmeling over 15. 11. Tom Heeney. Sharkey's worst performance against someone who really wasn't too good, at least not on film. Sharkey really struggled with the jab here. 10. Mike McTigue. Sharkey was once again getting outjabbed here, except by a light heavyweight. Sharkey didn't stop McTigue, the fight was stopped on a cut in the 12th, luckily for Sharkey. It looked like he was going to lose. 9. Phil Scott. While he banged Phil around quite a bit, it was an ugly performance. No fault of Sharkey, 100% Scott's fault. But certainly a sloppy victory. Who wants to win over "Faintin' Phil"? 8. Jack Dempsey. I could see many of you ranking this one higher, but I don't get it. He fought on near-even terms with a washed-up ex-champion. Not too hot imo. 7. Young Stribling. Horrible, painfully dull fight. But Sharkey did show command in the clinches, using his clever tactics to get out of them. 6. Primo Carnera II. A helluva lot better than most of Sharkey's wins actually. Sharkey got off to a bad start in the 1st, but came back winging some wild ones in the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th rounds. 5. Mickey Walker. A draw with a middleweight champion considered one of the best of all time? Is that good or bad? I don't really know, but I tend to go the way of the latter. This was certainly one of Sharkey's most energetic performances, but he did tire badly late in the match. And really, a draw with an aging middleweight is not very good, even if he is an ATG. 4. Tommy Loughran. I said in the past this was not an extraordinary win to me, from the perspective that it didn't look like he floored Loughran with anything big. Yet, he did floor him, and leave him there. The fact that he KO'd a great boxing master and a tough one at that is pretty good. 3. Primo Carnera I. Most of what makes this fight cool at all is that Sharkey floors and beats up a guy practically twice his size. That's pretty cool. But I pick this one cuz Sharkey licked his three biggest problems, at least for some amount of time. He overcame Carnera's jab, he surged in the 15th, thus showing good stamina, and also showing that Carnera's survival of the 4th didn't demoralize him. 2. Jim Maloney IV. The most beautiful performance of Sharkey's to watch. He showed insane bobbing and weaving technique as well as considerable speed. Top it all off with a good knockout. I thought it was a good showcase. I felt bad ranking it above clearly better wins over Carnera and Loughran though. 1. Max Schmeling I. Sharkey looked very good here. Jabbing well, showing generally good movement. And he was throwing a lot of good right hand bombs. The fact that he was beating Max Schmeling for three out of four rounds makes this his best performance to me. Any thoughts, guys?
I'd have Phil Scott fight definitely higher than Walker and Carnera II. My order would probably look like this: 1. Tommy Loughran - to me it's a great knockout win over elite opponent. Sharkey showed power he rarely did. 2. Jim Maloney - unreal performance from Sharkey, his ability to bob and weave as well as counter is well shown here. 3. Max Schmeling I - he looked good in first few rounds, but it's not enough sample to have it higher. 4. Primo Carnera I - he outboxed cleanly good boxer who was much bigger than him, including flooring him. 5. Phil Scottt - I don't agree with your conclusion, it's really good performance from Sharkey. 6. Young Stribling - nice tactical battle, Sharkey dominated inside 7. Jack Dempsey - to me Sharkey was clearly winning before the illegal punch, though Dempsey got better as the fight went on. He battered Dempsey like no one else in fights available. 8. Max Schmeling II - he was way too passive to win this fight, but he showed good defense and stiff jab. 9. Primo Carnera II - he didn't look terrible, but got knocked out and was clearly losing the fight. 10. Mickey Walker - he should have done far better than drawing with Mickey and he seemed to be uninterested throughout the fight.
Thanks for the recap, I never saw J Sharkey vs McTigue. J Sharkey was a true off and on fighter. I find Sharkey to be over rated, down 15 times in his career and losing / drawing to guys he shouldn't. I do feel his performance vs Dempsey should rate much higher. He was pasting him. As washed up as Dempsey fans might clam he was, he's still better most on the list, including those placed ahead of him.
Not that he's rated top 10, or even top 15, but I do see him in the 20's which to me is still overrated.
Based on legacy, and head to head. Not in exact order. Tier 1 Ali Holmes Lewis V Klitschko Tier two Louis Wlad Foreman Jeffries Tier 3 Liston Bowe Dempsey Tyson Tier 4 Holyfield Marciano Frazier Joshua* - Still active Tier 5 Langford Norton Tunney Johnson Tier 6 ( 5 fighters listed ) Ibeabuchii Charles Withersooon Patterson Schmeling That's 25 and I did not list Wills, Sullivan, Fitzsimmons, Walcott, or Lyle all of whom I think are greater than Sharkey. I probably put Sharkey some where in the 30's or 40's
You have Vitali in tier 1? Seriously?? Ibeabuchii? Based on what exactly? This list is weak in general, but I won't comment it in this thread. I certainly wouldn't have Lyle and Tunney over Sharkey either at HW.
I'm not making this a Klitschko thread, and by they way he'd pound J Sharkey and win easily, don't you agree? No ducking this question, 70's. You wanted 25 and I gave you them. In fact I gave you 30, names if you want to argue any of them over Sharkey Yes-- I saw Ike's fight and would place him in the top 25. He was head to head master, able to out brawl Tua and track down and take out a very good Chris Byrd with style. He'd destroy J Sharkey too. Sharkey never beat anyone close to Lyle at least without a robbery. Heck Carnera Ko'd Sharkey early. 'Nuff said Tunney was very good, he only lost officially once in 80 fights, and beat many hall of fame opponents. Sharkey? He's a guy who struggles with middles and light heavies, lost 13 times, drew 3 times, and was down at least 15 times. Can you say SUSPECT? Him being in your top 25 is a joke, I must see where you place him, Please show me.
I said, based on legacy, and head to head. Not in exact order. Maybe you can help me out, is there a guy on the list that has a better rounds won to round lost ratio? Is there guy on the list who was never floored by a punch? Is there guy on the list that was as good in his late 30's to 41? How many on the list made the hall of fame on their first try? ( excluding the first class ) How many on the list have a successful comeback 4 years out of the ring, in their later 30's? And I'll throw you a bone, how many had a higher KO %? My guess is you have a bunch of no's, and just a few names, but I'd like to hear from you.
Well, hard to rate a win on a foul in the 4th as his best effort. I think of the fights on film, the best is the Loughran win. He didn't look all that good in that fight until the KO, but it is an impressive win. (aside-it might be unfair to Sharkey, but I can't help wondering if hitting his head on the rope when he fell might have concussed Loughran and caused the stoppage). You have the first Carnera fight high, which I agree with. This is actually I think his best win. On paper, the second Schmeling fight might be tops, but like you I don't think Sharkey won that one. As for where to rate him, or is he overrated, while I mostly disagree with Mendoza's ratings, I agree with him that Sharkey should be no where near the top 25, and I think very iffy for the top 50. If he didn't get the gift decision against Schmeling, would anyone put him in the top 50? On balance, I like your evaluations.
Actually, my biggest gripe is rating Dempsey that high. The problem with Vitali is he lost to the two best men he fought and doesn't have signature wins to overcome that. And those losses were not when he was green or old. It might be due to bad luck, as I agree that on paper he is a head to head monster, but you have to do it in the ring for me to rate you near the top.
